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Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant

Study shows risk benefit ratio of 2:3 for Vaxx

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A-I View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 06 2021 at 10:35pm
"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 10:48pm

Interesting ! 

DJ-I think "most" (including Geert van den Bossche) see little problem in vaccinating the most vulnarable....

Also-major point-Non Pharma Interventions- are also a good tool with shown effectivity ! 

If I had a choice between vaccines and limiting 90/95% of air travel in a pandemic I would stop air travel !

(BTW [url]https://www.lareb.nl/bijwerkingen-coronavaccins[/url] or https://www.lareb.nl/bijwerkingen-coronavaccins internet problem ?)

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 06 2021 at 11:07pm

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

Interesting ! 

DJ-I think "most" (including Geert van den Bossche) see little problem in vaccinating the most vulnarable....

Also-major point-Non Pharma Interventions- are also a good tool with shown effectivity ! 

If I had a choice between vaccines and limiting 90/95% of air travel in a pandemic I would stop air travel !

(BTW [url]https://www.lareb.nl/bijwerkingen-coronavaccins[/url] or https://www.lareb.nl/bijwerkingen-coronavaccins internet problem ?)

Agreed most have no problem with vaccinating those who are most vulnerable and susceptible to covid. I shudder to think what the risk benefit ratio for vaccinations of children who are the least vulnerable to covid is and or will be.

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hazelpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 2:58am

Just to clarify the position in the UK for 12-15 year olds as its interesting situation

Child vaccinations is hotly debated in UK as our 2 advisory groups disagree.

Here in UK our Joint Commitee on Vaccination and Immunisation (JCVI) are the ones who normally dictate NHS and government policy on childhood immunisation programs. They currently do not recommend routine covid vaccination for 12-5 year olds. In their assessment Benefit vs risk from vaccine in this age group does not justify it.

However politicians then asked the 4 chief medical officers to intervene and overruled the JCVI findings as they argue it takes into consideration only the medical justification but doesnt consider the wider societal impacts of vaccination, including educational benefits (less time lost to school ).

So UK governmenttl rolled out programme to vaccinate 12 to 15 year olds which surprised many as very unusual to overrule JCVI advice.

Quote from our JCVI

The health benefits from vaccination vs the potential known harms. The margin of benefit is considered too small to support universal vaccination of healthy 12 to 15 year olds at this time

There is evidence of an association between mRNA COVID-19 vaccines and myocarditis. This is an extremely rare adverse event. The medium- to long-term effects are unknown and long-term follow-up is being conducted.

Given the very low risk of serious COVID-19 disease in otherwise healthy 12 to 15 year olds, considerations on the potential harms and benefits of vaccination are very finely balanced and a precautionary approach was agreed.

For otherwise healthy 12 to 15 year old children, their risk of severe COVID-19 disease is small and therefore the potential for benefit from COVID-19 vaccination is also small. The JCVI’s view is that overall, the health benefits from COVID-19 vaccination to healthy children aged 12 to 15 years are marginally greater than the potential harms.

Taking a precautionary approach, this margin of benefit is considered too small to support universal COVID-19 vaccination for this age group at this time. The committee will continue to review safety data as they emerge.

When deciding on childhood immunisations, the JCVI has consistently maintained that the main focus should be the benefits to children themselves, balanced against any potential harms to them from vaccination.

As longer-term data on potential adverse reactions accumulates, greater certainty may allow for a reconsideration of the benefits and harms. This data may not be available for several months.



Hz x

Link to full JCVI

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/jcvi-issues-updated-advice-on-covid-19-vaccination-of-children-aged-12-to-15

Link to news article showing government over ruling science body.


https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-ministers-face-difficult-decision-on-whether-to-overrule-jcvis-finding-on-vaccinating-children-12398490


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Littlesmile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 3:28am

Thank you for the information Hazel pad! I have youngish kids and all information,  pro or con is good in my eyes. We are a bit behind in NI lol but eventually things roll out here too.

:-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 7:31am

I sometimes get the feeling the main reason for pushing vaccines is to keep the economy going - NOT public health !

For children less school-more study at home-may be wiser...

[url]https://nltimes.nl/2021/12/07/mandatory-testing-travelers-countries-worrying-covid-variant-outbreak-team[/url] or https://nltimes.nl/2021/12/07/mandatory-testing-travelers-countries-worrying-covid-variant-outbreak-team ...More testing also could limit spread......

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 07 2021 at 1:03pm

Thanks for that quote Hazelpad. If a child is healthy there seems to be almost no risk of a severe outcome from Covid so it seems strange to be vaccinating them. I saw an English doctor say that any vaccination should only be given for the benefit of the recipient, not for the benefit of others. And that makes sense. We all have the polio vaccination because it will protect us from polio which is devastating to everyone, but Covid is only devastating to people who are vulnerable and as you get older, the risk increases, so it makes sense for those people to get jabbed, but not children (unless vulnerable).

Over here they have introduced the jab for 12-17 year olds and today they are reporting the problems schools are having trying to organise school trips and activities when half the children are vaxxed and half aren't. Some swimming pools are only allowing vaxxed people in, and so that means no swimming lessons, the same with some museums, so camp grounds etc. It's proving to be a logistical nightmare. Due to medical privacy laws, the schools also don't know who is vaxxed and who isn't unless the parents tell them.

It is widely anticipated that in Jan they will extend the age group to include 5's and upwards. The rationale behind this is very dubious.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2021 at 7:15am

peer reviewed study out of Michigan State.  

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34873910/

 

Mechanisms of SARS-CoV-2 Evolution Revealing Vaccine-Resistant Mutations in Europe and America

The importance of understanding SARS-CoV-2 evolution cannot be overlooked. Recent studies confirm that natural selection is the dominating mechanism of SARS-CoV-2 evolution, which favors mutations that strengthen viral infectivity. Here, we demonstrate that vaccine-breakthrough or antibody-resistant mutations provide a new mechanism of viral evolution. Specifically, vaccine-resistant mutation Y449S in the spike (S) protein receptor-binding domain, which occurred in co-mutations Y449S and N501Y, has reduced infectivity compared to that of the original SARS-CoV-2 but can disrupt existing antibodies that neutralize the virus. By tracking the evolutionary trajectories of vaccine-resistant mutations in more than 2.2 million SARS-CoV-2 genomes, we reveal that the occurrence and frequency of vaccine-resistant mutations correlate strongly with the vaccination rates in Europe and America. We anticipate that as a complementary transmission pathway, vaccine-breakthrough or antibody-resistant mutations, like those in Omicron, will become a dominating mechanism of SARS-CoV-2 evolution when most of the world's population is either vaccinated or infected. Our study sheds light on SARS-CoV-2 evolution and transmission and enables the design of the next-generation mutation-proof vaccines and antibody drugs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 08 2021 at 9:51am

Thanks for the article KSC  And per your posted article

"By tracking the evolutionary trajectories of vaccine-resistant mutations in more than 2.2 million SARS-CoV-2 genomes, we reveal that the occurrence and frequency of vaccine-resistant mutations correlate strongly with the vaccination rates in Europe and America.

Seems to back up the positions of some virologist such as Montagnier and Bossche that the vax is driving mutations of covid. And those variants are stronger and/or more transmittable as well as being vaxx resistant.

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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