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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

The Incoherence of Vaccine Hesitancy Conspiracies.

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John L. View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: The Incoherence of Vaccine Hesitancy Conspiracies.
    Posted: May 02 2021 at 1:36pm

So here am I several days after my second Moderna Covid shot, the minor side effects finally past (and I mean minor, I worked Friday.)  And I read about some idiots in a Miami private school saying that none of their teachers who were vaccinated can return to work due to "vaccine shedding."  Of course this created a panick among parents-to remove their children from the care of these jackasses as quickly as possible.

However remembering how the false election fraud claims never died despite much proof otherwise, I went to track down, where did this latest idiocy come from?  See below (and no, I am not posting this as a joke.)

'Conceptually incoherent:' Expert debunks Alberta business' vaccine 'shedding' claim

        

Last Updated Apr 30, 2021 at 2:48 pm PDT

                     

                             
                                                                                                                             A central Alberta business says it is banning anyone who has had the COVID-19 vaccine in the last four weeks from entering their store, because of the risk, it claims, of so-called “shedding.” (CREDIT: Tea Rocks via Facebook)                                                                                                                            
                               

EDMONTON – A central Alberta business says it is banning anyone who has had the COVID-19 vaccine in the last four weeks from entering its store, because of the risk, it claims, of so-called “shedding.”

Scientific experts say the latest in vaccine misinformation is that you shed modified cells–kind of like a cat sheds fur–after getting the vaccine, which could be harmful to others and even cause miscarriages.

“It’s conceptually incoherent,” said Tim Caulfield, Canada Research Chair in public health law and policy.

“It’s not supported in science and I think it sends a very dangerous message.”

Caulfield says there’s no evidence to support these claims.


He says these types of conspiracy theories are being used to drive vaccine hesitancy by planting the seed of doubt.

The business that posted this sign claims it is to protect a pregnant employee and the move was done at the advice of “medical professionals and their insurance provider.”

RELATED:

 

The store did not answer CityNews’ request for comment or say which insurance provider gave those instructions.

However, the store wrote on Facebook it’s waiting for more scientific evidence.

“You’ll find people who say well there’s no scientific evidence, that means maybe if they did study it maybe they would find it. It’s not even scientifically plausible.”

WATCH: Full interview with Caulfield

         
                       
                       
        
       

Caulfield says it would be an expensive waste of time to study something that has no scientific backing.

It’s this type of misinformation Caulfield is hoping to counter with Science Up First, where credible experts take to social media–where misinformation breeds–to break down what’s backed by scientific proof and what’s not and how to verify your sources.

“You don’t have to be a hardcore denier to be influenced by this. To start to question things, to doubt things, and that little bit of doubt can have a real big impact on intention to vaccinate. And that’s why countering this misinformation when it happens is so important,” he said.

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Another sho

John L.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 02 2021 at 10:23pm

Q.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 3:03am

ViQueen24-one of the shortest reactions on this forum so far ! 

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 7:04am

No, not Q!

Page 67 of the 184 page Pfizer report on their version...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 7:05am

If it's to be - it's up to me!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Newbie1A Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 7:38am

I have not been on this forum - have not commented in months. I got sick of seeing a few particular members who insist on calling everyone with a different opinion stupid. I am not, and I don’t give one rats ass about your so-called beloved/hated Q.

There are NO C19 vaccines approved by the FDA — none! They are in testing until 2023. Until such time as they prove themselves safe in the animal challenge testing part of their safety studies which by the way all coronavirus vaccines have failed that stage of testing in the last 20 years and is why there have never been any brought to market until such time as they are proven safe I choose to not have any vaccine/any brand Of C19 vaccine. I will not risk an ADE/VED reaction!

It is not “vaccine hesitancy” it is my informed Choice of what I put in my own body. 

And if these vaccines are so wonderful and so great - then all of you who have had them should not be worried about those of us who don’t because you’re protected, correct??? Oh yes “herd immunity”... possibly/likely already reached in many areas if you take into account the potential numbers of ppl (like myself) who are pretty sure they’ve had it and never got tested, all the asymptotic (according to media - kazillion of them!) etc etc etc...

I am on my phone which absolutely hates this forum, it is showing me everything as double and triple that I type, and I’m using Siri so I hope this makes some semblance of sense. It will be likely my only post for many more months because I don’t need people like the “gentleman” from Australia calling me a stupid C just because I have a differing opinion.  
Have a blessed summer/fall every one! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 1:02pm

That is technically true, at least in part.  But it is VERY misleading.


Quote (From the FDA's own website):


The U.S. Food and Drug Administration has authorized three COVID-19 vaccines for emergency use. The vaccines are:

Emergency use authorization (EUA) allows these vaccines to be distributed in the U.S. Learn more about EUAs for COVID-19 vaccines from the FDA’s Center for Biologics Evaluation and Research (CBER).

Unquote.


Full article


That however, does not mean they do not recommend them.  Simply put, full authorisation takes far too long as it is a convoluted legal/ legislative process*.  However they have deemed them safe (although that is a relative term) and actively recommend them.  Without the minescule** risks they pose, millions more would die who could otherwise be saved.


So, what you say is technically correct, but actively misleading.  


The yellow highlights were added by myself.


The rest of the article you posted, Newbie, was difficult to read, unclear and unreferenced.  It gave the impression (to me at least) of being based on out-of-context information misunderstood by the original posters.  It did not appear to reference any actual evidence of 'shedding'.  What it did apparently show was what the definition of 'shedding' was.  If I have understood the whole vaccine process (RNA or traditional), then 'shedding' is technically impossible, as no live virus is used in any of the vaccines.

Please post a link to said article if you can.  Then we all can look up its links and refrences and decide for ourselves.



* Viruses are no respecters of legislation or legal niceties.  They just go on killing, whilst the human research continues.

* * J&J vaccine: 6 reported blood clot events in the USA,  which MAY be linked to the vaccine.
Astra Zeneca vaccine has had comprable results. But that has not recieved authorisation in the USA.
Yet Covid 19 deaths total: 574,000 so far in the USA. death toll so far


The best source of information (without ploughing through the jargon of actual scientific papers) is:  Nature magazine



Believers don't need proof and sceptics won't accept proof.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 2:42pm

 "I don’t need people like the “gentleman” from Australia calling me a stupid C just because I have a differing opinion.  
Have a blessed summer/fall every one!"

IF you are referring to me ,I have never used the C word to anyone on here.....I have never used a swear word on here.....


but then again going by your post,

you are....!!!!!!!







Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 3:00pm

I agree with Newbie about the safety of the vaccines. I can understand why people who are in a very high risk category are taking them because if they catch Covid they may well die from it and so taking a risk with an experimental vaccine is the lesser of two evils, but I cannot understand why younger, healthy people are taking it and I certainly can't understand why they are giving it to kids. 

It is a publicly acknowledged fact that these vaccines don't prevent a person from catching covid. What they do is to stop the recipient from developing a serious case and serious, life threatening complications. They can still have it and be asymptomatic and they can still transmit the virus to other people. In my mind therefore it's not a vaccine. 

I'm not against the concept of an advance treatment to stop Covid from becoming life threatening, but I am against the idea of coercing people into taking an injection that has not passed it's safety procedures and exempting the manufacturers from litigation. 

By all means off the jabs to the vulnerable but explain what they actually are rather then gloss over the cracks. Allow people to make an informed choice. Unfortunately we're heading for compulsory vaccinations in many parts of the world and I can't help but wonder if we'll regret that decision in 10 years time when we have more info about the true long term effects of these vaccinations on people.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 3:04pm

I will just add that on the whole I support vaccinations and my family are fully vaccinated but there's no way I will allow my children to receive these vaccines while they are in the experimental phase. If they pass their safely protocols in the future then we will reconsider.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 4:38pm

"Whomsoever refuses to learn from history, is doomed to repeat it."

John L.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 4:41pm

Those that refuse to accept reality are doomed to go the way of dionsaurs.....

no great loss......

we need to depopulate the planet.....

Take care all 😷😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 4:45pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

I will just add that on the whole I support vaccinations and my family are fully vaccinated but there's no way I will allow my children to receive these vaccines while they are in the experimental phase. If they pass their safely protocols in the future then we will reconsider.

Lots of people been vaccinated now ,not many deaths from vaccine.......if any !!!

Millions dead or sick from the virus......

Not rocket science.....

Virology!!!!!!

Take care all 😷😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 9:29pm

I understand people being reluctant to receive this vaccine because they feel it is new or untested.  A year ago, I was under the impression that there had never been a vaccine successfully produced for a coronavirus.  I was wrong.  At that time, this vaccine was already developed and was being tested.  Obviously we wish there had been more time for testing, but Covid is killing too many people for that.  If I lived in a country where the leadership had done things right, and kept their people safe, and kept Covid away, perhaps I would wait too.  But I am 55, obese, with asthma and autoimmunity, and i live in the US, so my decision is to take the shot (tomorrow, 5/4, first dose, Moderna).  Covid would be an almost certain death sentence, or at very best, long-haul Covid for me.  I don't criticize or judge people for not taking the shot, only for making decisions without, as Carbon said, considering history.  Or without using critical thinking.

The contents of the vaccines are public, easily researched online.  There is no coronavirus contained in the jab.  It is made of modified messenger RNA, hence MODeRNA's name, from 10 years ago, when they began development of a SARS vaccine that led to this vaccine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moderna

Nor is "protein shedding" a thing:

https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-covid19vaccine-reproductivepro-idUSL1N2MG256

And like it or not, QAnon is making alot of hay dissing this vaccine for their own purposes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/26/us/far-right-extremism-anti-vaccine.html

We may indeed regret being too forceful about this vaccine in 10 years.  But if we don't reach herd immunity, I think there will be a whole hell of alot fewer of us around to regret it.  And we are already forced to take alot of shots in this country, can't speak for other countries, as well as drive at a responsible speed, sober, and with seatbelts and car insurance.  The problem, as my mother says, is that there aren't enough people around anymore who remember the scourge of polio or smallpox.  JMHO.  YMMV.

I do believe the Emergency Use Authorization-nature of this vaxx has been explained and emphasized many, many times here in the press, I don't know about elsewhere.  I do not see any glossing going on.

I do indeed hope that, if you had Covid, Newbie, that it provides lifelong immunity for you.  But I wouldn't bet the farm on it, especially with all the variants out there.  But, it's your nickel, so to speak.

I do consider this a vaccine.  For example, even if scientists match the correct strain of flu virus in the jab and you receive the jab, that is no guarantee you will not get the flu, but it usually lessens the impact/severity, which is fortunate, as flu/pneumonia are the 7th leading cause of death in the US.  Sometimes higher.

Definition of vaccine


a preparation that is administered (as by injection) to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific infectious disease:
aan antigenic preparation of a typically inactivated or attenuated (see ATTENUATED sense 2) pathogenic agent (such as a bacterium or virus) or one of its components or products (such as a protein or toxin)
ba preparation of genetic material (such as a strand of synthesized messenger RNA) that is used by the cells of the body to produce an antigenic substance (such as a fragment of virus spike protein). Merriam-Webster
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 03 2021 at 10:56pm

When the vaccines were first coming out, I too was concerned about lack of data and testing, but given the severity of the effects of covid I would have taken the vaccine if I was in one of the high risk groups.  

Fortunately I was not in a high risk group, and by the time I was offered my first dose (last month), I felt that there was enough data (ie in 10 millions doses already given) to show the immediate risks to make an informed decision, and in my opinion it was a no-brainer to go with the vaccination [even if it was the AZ one].  For me the risk of death from the vaccine was so much lower (magnitude of over 3,000)  than if I got covid-19.  Added to this the effects of 'long-covid' meant there was no way I would refuse a vaccine. 


ps.  humans are very bad at judging odds related to themselves....the number of people that play Lotto shows that.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 12:42am

Yes-I buy lottery tickets in the state lottery..happy when I win enough money to cover the costs of the tickets...self delusion I allow myself maybe once a year...

I will get the pfizer vaccine...but basicly I hate it...For me vaccinations are plan B, plan A was to stop the spread enough to get this pandemic under control. I do not believe vaccines will be enough to get a grip on this pandemic. It may even worsen this pandemic by protecting against milder variants-still offering room for the spread of "ugly variants"...

For now vaccination may offer me-and people/animals around me-some protection. But I will keep limiting social contacts, (I was not very social to begin with...so for me that is not a hard job-for many others it will be much harder..) mask when shopping (but most shopping will be on-line..) . I would love to go to my favorite restaurant-buffet...I love eating...but restaurants remain closed-and even when they were open I would have to limit myself (for mone then one reason...)

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/united-states-ab/united-states-covid-19-sars-cov-2-september-13-2020-may-31-2021/914581-four-fully-vaccinated-people-with-underlying-high-risk-health-conditions-have-died-of-covid-19-in-dallas-county[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/united-states-ab/united-states-covid-19-sars-cov-2-september-13-2020-may-31-2021/914581-four-fully-vaccinated-people-with-underlying-high-risk-health-conditions-have-died-of-covid-19-in-dallas-county DJ-As I wrote in scenario's-the US-and many other countries-have already a lot of variants-some evading immunity...

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/canada/canada-covid-19-sept-13-2020-may-31-2021/914568-1-3-of-canada%E2%80%99s-covid-19-cases-had-1st-vaccine-phac[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/canada/canada-covid-19-sept-13-2020-may-31-2021/914568-1-3-of-canada%E2%80%99s-covid-19-cases-had-1st-vaccine-phac ;The Pfizer and Moderna vaccines are around 60 to 80 per cent effective in preventing COVID-19 infection three to four weeks after receiving a single dose, according to Ontario Public Health...

DJ-It may be 60 to 80% is more realistic now-with variants...

[url]https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/the-pandemic-discussion-forum/913781-vaccine-dangers-and-side-effects[/url] or https://flutrackers.com/forum/forum/the-pandemic-discussion-forum/913781-vaccine-dangers-and-side-effects DJ-Some of the risks more remain under reported to try to convince all to get vaccinated...good-long-discussion with latest activity also on serious vaccine related problems...

We have to stop spreading the virus and we are still not doing that !

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cn65 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 12:56am


Lots of people been vaccinated now ,not many deaths from vaccine.......if any !!!

[/QUOTE]


You sound like the government - all of them who would deny the holocaust while raking the bones out of the ovens.

In Europe the EMA consider that a number of the rare blot clots deaths are indeed linked to the virus.

in the UK...

First, HMG denied there was a problem or that we were seeing any such deaths from clots

Then, when persuaded to stop looking the other way admitted that ummm, err, yes there were deaths

Then with a bit more pressure they found a few more death hidden down the back of the sofa - but still denied of course that they had anything to do with the vax at all

Well they would say that wouldn't they to avoid paying out any compo., After all they denied for 10 years that the swine flu vax side effects had anything to do with narcolepsy until eventually the courts told them it was and to pay up.


to take one such vax alleged connected death I'm sure the family of the UK solicitor who was a healthy 58 year old - well until he had the vax and was then dead in 3 days will be delighted to hear that it had nothing whatsoever to do with the vax - he was just I suppose classed as "collateral damage".

This page gives the full categorisation of all UK deaths following the vax  for each of the different vax (its the analysis print documents)https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-vaccine-adverse-reactions

Some of course would have occurred anyway - the real question is how many of them would, how many the vax helped along and how many were directly killed by the vax.


Anyway, I've had the virus and will not be having the vax. Unfortunately I do have connections with those involved in the vax's origins so am under pressure to accede. They are rapidly approaching the point where they will be told to fk off and never contact me again.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 3:02am

KiwiMum is right.  The vaccines are not safe.  I wish our government had done a better job of supressing the virus, then we would have the same options as she does.  But sadly, there is only one Jacinda Ardern.

Having said they are not safe, the comparison with the virus should guide anyone smart enough to add up (at least outside NZ).  There is no vaccine holocaust.  The deaths from blood clots number in the low tens and most of them probably do not not even stem from the vaccine.  The condition is rare enough not to have collated figures from before the vaccines.  

By comparison,  the numbers of dead from the virus is in the millions - and still rising.  That vies for the epithet of 'holocaust'.

The vaccines prevent the vaccinated from disease, in most cases and from serious disease, in most of the rest.  The figures are now emerging to suggest they also more than halve the transmission rate  - not stop it - but halve it.  Immunity from having had the virus seems to wane even more quickly than that which was vaccine acquired.  So I can't see us reaching herd immunity unless everyone has it and we continue mask wearing for a year or so as well.  

Of course there are anecdotes of problems.  There are anecdotes of problem free vaccinations too - like my daughter and I, who both had the astra-zeneca, without any problems or worries.  There are risks, just small enough ones to be worth taking.  I cross the road too when I need to.  That is statistically even riskier.

No death is unimportant, but there are MORE of them without the vaccines than with; A HUNDRED THOUSAND TIMES MORE*!  Our hospitals here in the rich west, have 3 times almost been overwhelmed by the virus; the only appreciable medical time lost to the vaccine is the vast numbers of distribution centres it has taken to administer them.  Hubby (pfizer-Biontech) was vaccinated in a hotel, Daughter and I in a sports hall.  Poor tragic India does not have enough vaccines.  Tell them their huge death rate counts less than a suspected vaccine death of a single person here in the UK.  Some of them have lost whole families, including children, pregnant mothers and breadwinners - with no welfare system to fall back on.  Every death is a tragedy, but why should one death outweigh so many?  Are the big numbers so much harder to comprehend?

Many people vith this virus have no symptoms, others die extreemly slowly gasping their last over weeks. Additionally, this is a massively contagious virus. The combination of asymptomatic carriers and large R0 means cases can explode through a population very, very,  very rapidly!    

Having had the virus before seems to offer little protection compared to the vaccine and those getting sick a second time seem to have WORSE outcomes.  Please reconsider  cn65, if not for others, then for yourself.






*Approximately 30 deaths worldwide from the vaccines so far, compared with 3 million from the virus to date.  Both figures are evolving, but the ratio seems unchanging.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 5:01am

**Approximately 30 deaths worldwide from the vaccines so far, compared with 3 million from the virus to date.  Both figures are evolving, but the ratio seems unchanging.TA TECHNO...😉

How many people die per year from flu vaccine per year ?

And Really ,REALLY comparing the holocaust,with vaccine roll out.....how inane !!!!!

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 5:04am

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-04-29/woman-died-after-ct-scan-she-did-not-need/100104360

My point.....

Any medical intervention is risky......

Take care all 😷😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 7:20am

I do not agree that the vaccines are not safe.  Only that they have not yet been proven to be safe.

From the time we are conceived we are not safe.  Safety is an illusion we talk ourselves into.

Without vaccines, opening up again would be somewhere between alot less safe and impossible.  We are gamblers playing the odds.  What we don't see is that we all literally do that everyday, pandemic or no.  And eventually we all crap out.  Welcome to the world, girls and boys!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 1:11pm

This is a great discussion. I am friends with an old colleague in her early 50s in the UK who was fit and very active. She had her first shot of the Pfizer vaccine and then 2 days later woke up with partial paralysis in half her body. Over the past 3 months this paralysis, which is accompanied by severe pain, has started to spread up to her head. She's been told it's a genetic condition and there's nothing anyone can do. She's lost her job, is no longer allowed to drive. The doctors are suggesting it MAY wear off in 3 years. 

Now is that a coincidence? Who can say. Was the vaccine a trigger that activated a weakness in her?  And this info plays on my mind. It's certainly ruined my friend's life. Add to that the US lawmaker from Arizona, Alma Hernandez who despite 2 pfizer jabs, the last one 11 weeks ago, came down with full on Covid last week. 

 

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John L. Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 3:17pm

Oh my God, I just saw and I can't believe what I started.  I want to thank every single person who contributed to this excellent debate, including the ones who may not agree with me.  John L.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 4:34pm

First and foremost I believe in science.....

Ultimately it's up to the individual,

For my part I feel ,not only as the oldest member of my family,but as my civil duty to all other members of the society I live in ,and to Australia as a whole,

it's a team effort and if herd immunity is not reached we will be in and out of lockdowns for years.......,

Australia has done well up to now,for our economy to move forward and to get my fellow Aussies home I'll have the vaccine.

Take care all 😷😉


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 04 2021 at 6:02pm

Well said, Carbon.

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