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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Toll of social distancing too high

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Pixie View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Toll of social distancing too high
    Posted: March 23 2020 at 3:56pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2020 at 4:07pm

Only 7 days ago cidrap report, and now within few weeks? Even Dr Birx jumped the shark, And  Dr  Fauci  noticeably absent. Two weeks learning experience,but wanting to open different areas that don't have a lot of cases. More worried about economy.  We are screwed!

http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/03/modeling-study-suggests-18-months-covid-19-social-distancing-much

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2020 at 4:17pm

Look we are all going to get this some will get it worse than others if they want people to go back to work I say fine.  I have no grandchildren, my son has to work today and tomorrow but does not live with me.  I will SIP at least until August and I hope by then the hospitals will clear out and I will then go back to work.  I am lucky if schools go back in before end of may I will take a leave of absence.  I am 70 and really do not need to work so I can stay in.  For those who are over 60 that go back to work when the government says ok go back to work, I hope they are not the ones that get sick when the hospitals are full!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2020 at 4:18pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2020 at 4:30pm

This pandemic is just getting cranked up here in the US. The past two weeks for me have been  constant breatheless anxiety,watching the news is so bad it makes my legs feel like rubber, knowing what is coming.following the numbers out of Italy, off the charts,with a kill rate looking like 10%  Dr's there have never seen contagion levels like this,Warning us  and other countries that this is coming lockdown now This buffoon wants to lift the social distancing  and open up the country as cases and deaths are on the rise. Next week will be bad.and the following worst. This country is f*cked up. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2020 at 5:21pm

President Trump is going to let this SIP stop in 7 days...he is no buffoon!   A lot of people want to open the stores get people back to work so I say let them go let them open up.  If they die because they wanted money more than their lives or their children's live or their parent's lives so be it.  I am hearing people all over the press complaining that this is too long to keep the country closed down...give the press what they want.  So the hospitals fill up like Italy...just you don't get sick and have to go to a hospital.  SIP in your home and let others go back to work...so many will die you will have no problem getting a job.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2020 at 6:01pm

Cuomo talked today about exit strategy from this shut down.  I don't think he'll do anything about it until schools re-open April 20th.  If schools open.  Part of me thinks we're not even sure if this tapping the brakes pause is going to work.  And part of me thinks he's giving comfort by looking forward.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 23 2020 at 11:12pm

Originally posted by FluMom FluMom wrote:

President Trump is going to let this SIP stop in 7 days...he is no buffoon!   A lot of people want to open the stores get people back to work so I say let them go let them open up.  If they die because they wanted money more than their lives or their children's live or their parent's lives so be it.  I am hearing people all over the press complaining that this is too long to keep the country closed down...give the press what they want.  So the hospitals fill up like Italy...just you don't get sick and have to go to a hospital.  SIP in your home and let others go back to work...so many will die you will have no problem getting a job.  

The thing is Flumom, I don't think it's that simple. We none of us operate in isolation. I know some of us are SIP at the moment but if the rest of the community you live in aren't then you will be surrounded by the virus as soon as you break your SIP. You can't live independently of society, none of us can. It almost makes our own efforts not worth doing. Italy, who are having 800 deaths a day, and have about 56,000 cases already, have only infected 0.1% of their population and to achieve herd immunity they need 80% to have had it. That will take a long time. 

If the virus runs unchecked through a country, firstly the hospitals and medical facilities will become over run, and then, in countries like America where gun ownership is so widespread, desperate people will start using those guns either to punish hcw for not helping, or to force them at gunpoint to help their loved ones. At this point society breaks down. For the prepared individual happily isolating themselves at home, their world may well collapse around them as chaos spreads and people start rioting and looting and generally living as if there's no tomorrow. We can't do this as a group of individuals, we must tackle this as a team, with each person playing their part. As much as you love Trump, his big failing in all this in my opinion is that he hasn't made testing, care and treatment related to Covid 19 free to all people. At the moment his core voters are still happy with him, but you wait until their loved ones start dying and they can't get help or testing or treatment. America seems very close to the point of no return, and once that point has been passed is on a trajectory akin to Italy but with guns.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 4:03am

Considering America is #37 on world health rankings and Italy is #2, The situation would be far worse.


I know most gun owners are reasonable sane and sensible, but not all of them, as regular mass shootings, single murders and gang violence shows.  Then what happens when even those reasonable sane sensible people become desperate, dying overstressed people?

Under current problems, any leader needs support, but this is insanely early!  Perhaps he will not do it; he has been learning very fast up to now.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 1:43pm

I think NZ ranks about 47th on the list but still health care for Covid 19 is free. Free testing, free treatment, free hospital care.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 4:21pm

I find it fascinating how Flumom is belittled for prepping....telling her basically its for not, because she will get shot in the end.

THAT is the bully politics i have been talking about....this forum has become a cesspool of bully's, and it looks like Pixie has full control of the discussion.

I have for the most part stopped posting because, a few seem to control the narrative.....and if anyone cares......

I am so dam tired of the 90% bull crap political posts Pixie.

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 4:26pm

This is not about preping.  None of us here belittle that.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 24 2020 at 5:00pm

Pheasant,  If my posts are offending you don't read them. I will not apologize for posting articles that lays bare the foolishness of this administration.In my absence the past few weeks FluMom took up the trump mantle and you didn't b*tch  about that,....if you are going to attack me for my comments you better give equal distain to other comments expletive have made, I am not the only one here that find him a danger to this country.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 12:02am

Originally posted by Pixie Pixie wrote:

Pheasant,  If my posts are offending you don't read them. I will not apologize for posting articles that lays bare the foolishness of this administration.In my absence the past few weeks FluMom took up the trump mantle and you didn't b*tch  about that,....if you are going to attack me for my comments you better give equal distain to other comments expletive have made, I am not the only one here that find him a danger to this country.

   Good lord you wear me down Pixie, just keep the bias out of the news board.......I too can flood the whole page with garbage pieces from  right wing fringe "news" sites, and stir it up, but i don't.

And as far as Flumom, she is the only vocal opposition left for you to bash, and I'll be dammed if im going to let you bully her

You may not agree, and you may hate anyone who does not share your politics...but you WILL respect others....that is why i defend her.

Keep the trump is the anti-Christ, wold is going to end stories/ commentary off the news section......

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

   Everyone is stressed right now, and i get it...these are serious problems, part of why It bothers me so much is we really need to band together, and stand united...politics has to take a back seat, and both sides need to rally the American people not divide us.....i come here for fairness and news, and like minded people....not to watch abc-cbs-fox-msnbc talking points.

Here is a life lesson in tolerance:

   There was a man who everyone hated, he was vulgar, racist, mean, hot headed, a buffoon, arrogant, and was called many things....and as much as anyone hated him, he was appreciated, his name was George Smith Patton Jr......the point is you can dislike someone but still respect them....you don't have to like what they do, but need to understand what they are doing and why.....

   History will judge the government response and it will judge Trump...either fairly or not, either good or bad....but it will. 

Right now we have a battle to fight, be part of the solution. We need to learn to respect, it makes one a better person.

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 1:26am

Pheasant, at the bottom of your posts you have a quote "the only thing we have to fear is fear itself" and you're right. I think what we're seeing on here, particularly from the new members who have only joined since Covid 19, is pure fear. They are on here shouting and posturing and making out that they know it all as a way of making themselves feel important and therefore feel in control. It's fear talking. And to a certain extent, ignorance. As they say, the empty barrels make the most noise. 

Personally I find it very frustrating. I'd like to see us return to good strong discussion and information sharing, and I'm noticing that the more the new members rant, the less we hear from the older established members whose opinions I value. On some level it's understandable for people to react like this, because they've gone from normal life to a potential life threatening situation in a very short period of time. The rest of us have been preparing for something like this for years. Pixie is picking fights all over the place, on almost every thread. She appears to know it all and is quite happy to tell the rest of us where we're going wrong. Hopefully she'll calm down in a bit and join in rather than shout over the top of everyone else. But she's not the only one behaving like this. The unfortunate thing about this is the timing: just when we need the long term members to step up and discuss, we're having to babysit a load of infantile adults who are all busy having hissy fits.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 6:18am

Thank you Kiwimum, thoughtful post.

Yes, were all under stress, this is unprecedented times and could lead to peoples worst fears, or be a flash in the pan......time for the latter is waning.

Fear has different affects on different people, nobody is immune. We just have to remember we all in fact are in this together. I think we need to be forgiving and thoughtful to our comments, while at the same time being able to vent, and express our feelings here....I'm as guilty as anyone, I'm not a "trump droid" as my wife calls me, I am a patriot, and love my country, so I will support whoever is in charge to support my country.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend is a mantra that apply's here....we can all take a lesson from that...........the virus is the true enemy, not each other.

And on a side note: We Americans tend to be self centered, this is true, not by choice, but by habit, so I apologize to you if we sometimes act like the world revolves around us.

And to Pixie, you are right in many of your conclusions, Trump's mouth poses a danger in this crises second only to the virus itself, I'm not so sure his heart and mind are in sinc with the mouth.....

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jofg899 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 9:01am

I think there are many people worried that the lock downs may cause more damage than the disease.  By implementing the increasing severe lock downs, we are putting more and more people out of work and ruining livelihoods.  I fear the civil unrest may be GREATER after millions lose their jobs, have no money, little food. People who are unstable many times suffer worse after being forced into isolation. 


Those are all real concerns.  Locking down might save thousands, or hundreds of thousands of lives. But will it destroy thousands, or hundreds of thousands of lives through bankruptcy and homelessness and desolation? 

To me, there is no clear, obvious answer and this topic should (and I hope IS) being debated and discussed at all levels of government. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 10:27am

And this thread right here illustrates that this is a predicament, not a problem. There are no good choices/solutions, only consequences. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 11:41am

Originally posted by Thorne! Thorne! wrote:

And this thread right here illustrates that this is a predicament, not a problem. There are no good choices/solutions, only consequences. 

Yeah imagine if it was a dire problem. The lights and internet are still on, the water works, there is still law and order, you can still order anything from Amazon and get it delivered, the stores are still open and food is available. Now imagine all of that is gone, then you have a problem. This is hardly SHTF.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 12:03pm

One problem that could well develop is that as the social distancing helps "flatten the curve"/"put the breaks on" the final results will not be so bad as once feared (that is great). 

The problem will arise with people then saying "see it is not so bad, you should not have put such drastic rules in place".

I can seen an unjustified back-lash against those medical personal suggesting and the politicians that followed their advise  in taking hard steps.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 1:49pm

Originally posted by jofg899 jofg899 wrote:

I think there are many people worried that the lock downs may cause more damage than the disease.  By implementing the increasing severe lock downs, we are putting more and more people out of work and ruining livelihoods.  I fear the civil unrest may be GREATER after millions lose their jobs, have no money, little food. People who are unstable many times suffer worse after being forced into isolation. 

Those are all real concerns.  Locking down might save thousands, or hundreds of thousands of lives. But will it destroy thousands, or hundreds of thousands of lives through bankruptcy and homelessness and desolation? 

To me, there is no clear, obvious answer and this topic should (and I hope IS) being debated and discussed at all levels of government. 

I agree with you about the social unrest, particularly in a country like America where so many people not only own guns, but believe that they have a right to use them. America is a strange mix of a modern day, first world country and the original wild west frontier spirit. It's a tricky one. As we see month on month, it doesn't take much for an American to pull their gun so yes, the danger of societal collapse is very real. 

The trouble is though, if you abandon people to the virus and accept there will be deaths that's all well and good so long as it's not your loved ones who are dying. All those gun toting idiots who are trigger happy will be fine so long as it's random strangers dying in hospital corridors. When it's there own wife or daughter being denied treatment, then it will get very messy. It's not an either or situation. I think both the economy and humanity will be interlinked in America because of the gun laws there.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 2:34pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by jofg899 jofg899 wrote:

I think there are many people worried that the lock downs may cause more damage than the disease.  By implementing the increasing severe lock downs, we are putting more and more people out of work and ruining livelihoods.  I fear the civil unrest may be GREATER after millions lose their jobs, have no money, little food. People who are unstable many times suffer worse after being forced into isolation. 

Those are all real concerns.  Locking down might save thousands, or hundreds of thousands of lives. But will it destroy thousands, or hundreds of thousands of lives through bankruptcy and homelessness and desolation? 

To me, there is no clear, obvious answer and this topic should (and I hope IS) being debated and discussed at all levels of government. 

I agree with you about the social unrest, particularly in a country like America where so many people not only own guns, but believe that they have a right to use them. America is a strange mix of a modern day, first world country and the original wild west frontier spirit. It's a tricky one. As we see month on month, it doesn't take much for an American to pull their gun so yes, the danger of societal collapse is very real. 

The trouble is though, if you abandon people to the virus and accept there will be deaths that's all well and good so long as it's not your loved ones who are dying. All those gun toting idiots who are trigger happy will be fine so long as it's random strangers dying in hospital corridors. When it's there own wife or daughter being denied treatment, then it will get very messy. It's not an either or situation. I think both the economy and humanity will be interlinked in America because of the gun laws there.

Well it's obvious you have drank deeply from the liberal cool aid. Curious how do you explain the fact the violent crime rate according to the FBI statistics fell 54% between 1993 and 2018? 150 million lawful gun owning Americans didn't commit a crime with their guns today or any day. Your skewed perception of Americans who chose to own firearms and your generalization of them is astoundingly uninformed and seems only out done by your willingness and need to espouse such rubbish. Have a nice day, don't forget to wash your hands.

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Why anyone unless a farmer has a weapon is beyond me 

But I suppose if you lived in a violent country aka USA where they have more mass killings in the world and have one of the largest prison populations in the world you may need one, 

I feel sorry for Americans ,when I see were I live, and how lucky we are, 

Sad AI always seems to bring politics into the threads.....

This in Not a time for politics......

Time to pull together....

Take care all 

🤝🖖


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 3:17pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:





Why anyone unless a farmer has a weapon is beyond me 

But I suppose if you lived in a violent country aka USA where they have more mass killings in the world and have one of the largest prison populations in the world you may need one, 

I feel sorry for Americans ,when I see were I live, and how lucky we are, 

Sad AI always seems to bring politics into the threads.....

This in Not a time for politics......

Time to pull together....

Take care all 

🤝🖖


It's not a time for alarmist rhetoric without the benefit of fact either now is it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote BeachMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 4:33pm

I almost feel that I have no right to contribute to this conversation, but with the leave of the more senior members of the board, I will.

I am a new member, but have been “lurking” on the forum for years. I have benefited greatly from the wisdom and advice of the people who have been posting here for the long term. For that, I am grateful. For being allowed to join the forum, I am also grateful.

I was coming here several times a day, reading every post and staying carefully up to date with all of the threads. However, in the past few days, I have stopped doing that — and it’s because of the blatant politicization of this situation. It takes a toll on me as I read it, and the divisions that I am seeing make me so sad.

I understand that part of discussing this situation is discussing the approaches that the politicians are taking to attempting to solve it. I am not a fan of Trump, but I’m trying to give him a semblance of the benefit of the doubt, and I will not insult or denegrate others for their political beliefs. I have seen that starting to happen on AFT and it’s terrible, because that’s not the forum I have come to know over the years.

At a time when we need to pull together, I see people pushing apart. I am so sorry to see this happening. I hope to see our long-time members once again take up the mantle of leadership here on AFT, benefitting is all once again with their knowledge and understanding of the way pandemics function and what we may expect as this goes on. 

I apologize for the length of this post, and I wish everyone here well. God bless you all.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 8:34pm

AI, I'm not sure what your demographic is but you don't take kindly to anyone saying anything about your beloved USA do you? You are exactly what I was talking about yesterday in a post when I said that some people were on the prowl to find anything, no matter how small, to take offense about. You resort to statistics that you can't back up and aren't quite relevant to what's being discussed. It makes you sound very insecure. No one's out to attack America, we're just commenting on it. Why do you have such a problem with that?

In a country where gun ownership is limited, such as the UK, we are very unlikely to see a distressed relative pull a gun on a medic and demand treatment. In America, where gun ownership is extremely widespread, then it is quite a likely outcome isn't it? That's not a criticism of the States, it's just an observation. I read about a man in Texas who burst into a bank last year with a gun to rob the place - and he was promptly shot dead by 13 different customers who were each carrying a gun.

You're a new member here and yet you act as if you own the place. Obviously you think you know it all and that your opinion is the only one that matters and that viewpoint makes it impossible for you to participate in a discussion. Try to be objective, not subjective. There are some great people on here. And might I suggest that if you don't like the people on here, or their opinions, or the discussions, then perhaps you should go and find a different site full of people just like you and you can all be patriotic and angry together.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 10:05pm

Ok,  for those who attack americans for their guns,  think about the history of the USA, Think about the history of  your own nation.  Gun ownership is a national issue. Why on earth would a KIWI or an Aussie have any right to talk about some other  nation's guns.  the vast majority of gun owners are reasonable sober people who hunt or shoot for sporting purposes.  I am a member of a shooting club.  I collect old guns.  Most of my guns are old and are collectibles.  I had to take a hunter safety course and a CCW course in order to own a gun.  I always remind my fellow gun owners to practice safe shooting and gun security is a important part of gun culture.  Gun security is the ethical use of firearms and  their proper use in a society.  We study gun security as a class and explore ways to make guns safer to own add to prevent the unsafe use oi firearms.  I use a buddy system that insures the safety of gun use and operation.  You must be a smart person to be a member of this club and we have banned several people who have broken rules for sate handling of guns etc.  Gun ownership is  a serious  balance of duty and responsible conduct with the excitement of competing with others or hunting for that deer or pest control.    It is rare that members talk about guns being used in a violent manner.  We also have gun instructors who have 20 or more years of shooting in  law enforcement or military.   I have been a gun owner for at least 35 years. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 25 2020 at 10:35pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

AI, I'm not sure what your demographic is but you don't take kindly to anyone saying anything about your beloved USA do you? You are exactly what I was talking about yesterday in a post when I said that some people were on the prowl to find anything, no matter how small, to take offense about. You resort to statistics that you can't back up and aren't quite relevant to what's being discussed. It makes you sound very insecure. No one's out to attack America, we're just commenting on it. Why do you have such a problem with that?

In a country where gun ownership is limited, such as the UK, we are very unlikely to see a distressed relative pull a gun on a medic and demand treatment. In America, where gun ownership is extremely widespread, then it is quite a likely outcome isn't it? That's not a criticism of the States, it's just an observation. I read about a man in Texas who burst into a bank last year with a gun to rob the place - and he was promptly shot dead by 13 different customers who were each carrying a gun.

You're a new member here and yet you act as if you own the place. Obviously you think you know it all and that your opinion is the only one that matters and that viewpoint makes it impossible for you to participate in a discussion. Try to be objective, not subjective. There are some great people on here. And might I suggest that if you don't like the people on here, or their opinions, or the discussions, then perhaps you should go and find a different site full of people just like you and you can all be patriotic and angry together.

My statement stands and the statistic is completely relevant, the issue was gun violence in the US wasn't it, and here's the link to the verify that statistic,  https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/17/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

And I guess you don't like my opinion of your uninformed generalizations that you made of 150 million law abiding Americans who practice their 2nd amendment rights. And that is exactly who you were denigrating in your post. Perhaps YOU should try to be more objective.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 3:09am





I just don't understand the mentality of just owning a gun because 300 odd years ago it was written into your constitution,

I have been shooting, used to go with my wife's uncle, he used to shoot rabbits for a farmer,i have a friend here who goes shooting feral animals that need culling,

I understand sort of, shooting at a target,dont see the point though, collecting old guns that have been made harmless ,I can see why you would do that ,

What I don't understand is the need to have High powered assault weapons that people can buy,and walking round with a weapon.

It makes America look like a very unsafe place to live if you feel you need to be armed all the time. 

I suppose I have been lucky, first living in the UK, and for the last 30 odd years here, both relatively "Safe " countries, 

I have a friend that lives here, ex South African,when he goes back for holiday his brother meets him at airport with his "man sizer" as he calls it ,

South Africa is a very unsafe place to live, 

As for commenting on

America, I can comment on whatever I like, say whatever I like within reason, and if I think your

 President is a" Tool "

I will say so .

That's my right...... 

I have tried to curtail my criticising of trump ,but it has been very hard, when I look at his orange face, while he spouts crap out of his mouth every day, his 

Covid press conferences sound more and more like 

Political rallies....

Sorry I retract me trying to be nice, I will criticise the fool...... 


Whenever I like And if you don't like it

 Tell  someone that gives A S..t.....

Coz I couldnt care less ,what you think 

Who the hell are you anyway, 

A paid troll of the chump  camp....

Ciao


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 3:51am

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

AI, I'm not sure what your demographic is but you don't take kindly to anyone saying anything about your beloved USA do you? You are exactly what I was talking about yesterday in a post when I said that some people were on the prowl to find anything, no matter how small, to take offense about. You resort to statistics that you can't back up and aren't quite relevant to what's being discussed. It makes you sound very insecure. No one's out to attack America, we're just commenting on it. Why do you have such a problem with that?

In a country where gun ownership is limited, such as the UK, we are very unlikely to see a distressed relative pull a gun on a medic and demand treatment. In America, where gun ownership is extremely widespread, then it is quite a likely outcome isn't it? That's not a criticism of the States, it's just an observation. I read about a man in Texas who burst into a bank last year with a gun to rob the place - and he was promptly shot dead by 13 different customers who were each carrying a gun.

You're a new member here and yet you act as if you own the place. Obviously you think you know it all and that your opinion is the only one that matters and that viewpoint makes it impossible for you to participate in a discussion. Try to be objective, not subjective. There are some great people on here. And might I suggest that if you don't like the people on here, or their opinions, or the discussions, then perhaps you should go and find a different site full of people just like you and you can all be patriotic and angry together.

My statement stands and the statistic is completely relevant, the issue was gun violence in the US wasn't it, and here's the link to the verify that statistic,  https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/10/17/facts-about-crime-in-the-u-s/

And I guess you don't like my opinion of your uninformed generalizations that you made of 150 million law abiding Americans who practice their 2nd amendment rights. And that is exactly who you were denigrating in your post. Perhaps YOU should try to be more objective.

 


It's called bullying, AI.  Seems Kiwimum doesn't like "newbies".  Clearly she doesn't think we have much to offer.  Problem is, she doesn't understand, or in my case, remember that some of us newbies are from the old singtomeohmuse and fluwiki forums and we've been in and around forums like this for years.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 3:52am

You can thank NRA (National Rifle Association) for that Carbon.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 6:10am

I did not see KiwiMum's posts as an attack on anything.  Just a simple statement of facts.  Why are several people jumping on her for it?

I am NOT anti-gun.  I believe in freedom.  I think a little restraint could go a long way, but that is not anti-gun, just pro-common sense.  I wish Scotland's gun laws were a little more lax - but that is another issue.

However, give desperate people guns and some of them will use them.  That is obvious.  History has shown it repeatedly. 

Admitedly:   "You're a new member here and yet you act as if you own the place. Obviously you think you know it all and that your opinion is the only one that matters and that viewpoint makes it impossible for you to participate in a discussion. Try to be objective, not subjective. There are some great people on here. And might I suggest that if you don't like the people on here, or their opinions, or the discussions, then perhaps you should go and find a different site full of people just like you and you can all be patriotic and angry together. "   was a bit more agressive - but that was self defence: give attacked people keyboards and some of them will use them. 

Look at history, people use what they have, is all she is saying.  Why the attacks?  I have never known KiwiMum to be unprovokedly rude and her point is a valid one.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote pheasant Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 6:44am

I think everyone needs to go have some sex, and then a glass of wine....or the wine first......if that does not work, some dark chocolate too......

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WillobyBrat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 7:56am

I support Carbon and KiwiMum, because although I am genetically Irish, I was born in England during the worst war in the history of the human race.  At ten days old a German bomb blew me very nearly to bits and buried me in hospital waste from the nearby dump it landed in.  At two and a half years old, I left the hospital and the glass box I had lived in and boarded a ship for New Zealand, where I was raised, educated and taught to use firearms.  

At the age of just under 10 I was brought back to England, a ruined, bomb-torn, hell.  All my life I have longed to return to New Zealand, my homeland, this was made impossible by the treasonous acts of a British government whom, without the permission of the people, joined the EU.  I could not bear to live in England, so I moved as soon as I left the RAF, to Scotland.  Unfortunately, the police here hate the Irish, hate the English and will take your guns away from you, for any reason they can dream up.  

I live in a deer and rabbit infested area.  Farming here without a gun is impossible unless you have vast amounts of land, money and equipment.  So I believe in the right to bear arms. But, there is no need for any weapons other than a shotgun - up to 10 gague (we have massive swarms of wild geese - feathered locusts!) and a bolt action rifle of .243 - 7.62 calibre (.308) for the deer.  

I agree absolutely with KiwiMum and Carbon20, but of course I would do as we kiwis look upon each other as family and regard Australians as our big brothers.  The only time I feel violent towards others is twice a year, 17th March when I sing rebel songs and drink Guiness and the 25th of April, when I celebrate Anzac day,  and yes on that day I creep off into my woods and cry like a child knowing that with the loss of free movement between our nations, I will never see the plains of Canterbury or my beloved Willowby again.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

So now you know my prejudices, Can I say I agree with them for good reasons, as well as that.  Oh and Phesant, keep pouring that oil on those waters - it's appreciated.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But, I still think Trump and that religious nut Pence are a$$h*les.


 

I like Ike
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 7:59am

Great advice Phesant!

Please excuse WillowbyBrat and Myself for an hour or two.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 11:32am

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:





I just don't understand 

Of course you don't, you are not American, you don't live here and don't vote here, don't pay taxes here, or know American history very well it seems. Why would you understand, it's beyond you. Now throw another shrimp on the barbie and don't forget to wash your hands.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 11:40am

I am glad I don't get it either.  I don't want to understand how anything can be more valuable than life.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 1:50pm

Originally posted by ME163 ME163 wrote:

Ok,  for those who attack americans for their guns,  think about the history of the USA, Think about the history of  your own nation.  Gun ownership is a national issue. Why on earth would a KIWI or an Aussie have any right to talk about some other  nation's guns.  the vast majority of gun owners are reasonable sober people who hunt or shoot for sporting purposes.  I am a member of a shooting club.  I collect old guns.  Most of my guns are old and are collectibles.  I had to take a hunter safety course and a CCW course in order to own a gun.  I always remind my fellow gun owners to practice safe shooting and gun security is a important part of gun culture.  Gun security is the ethical use of firearms and  their proper use in a society.  We study gun security as a class and explore ways to make guns safer to own add to prevent the unsafe use oi firearms.  I use a buddy system that insures the safety of gun use and operation.  You must be a smart person to be a member of this club and we have banned several people who have broken rules for sate handling of guns etc.  Gun ownership is  a serious  balance of duty and responsible conduct with the excitement of competing with others or hunting for that deer or pest control.    It is rare that members talk about guns being used in a violent manner.  We also have gun instructors who have 20 or more years of shooting in  law enforcement or military.   I have been a gun owner for at least 35 years. 

Again, an example of someone looking to take offense. I'm not attacking America over it's gun laws, I'm just commenting that in a country full of guns, a stressed person is far more likely to reach for his gun than in a country where there isn't widespread gun ownership. It would be almost impossible for someone in the UK to pull a gun in frustration and anger at a medic because people are not allowed to carry guns in the UK. But in America, where everyone has easy access to them, it's a distinct possibility. 

I'm not bashing America, I'm trying to have a discussion. Fyi, I'm a gun owner. Here in NZ we can have guns but not semi automatics with large capacity magazines since the terrorist attack last year. It's also not possible to own a handgun without very special licensing. All our guns are licensed and all gun owners have to be too. I'm married to a military man and we have lots of guns, interesting guns. 

I'm sure the majority of people who have guns are responsible, but it only takes one lunatic.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 2:05pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I did not see KiwiMum's posts as an attack on anything.  Just a simple statement of facts.  Why are several people jumping on her for it?

I am NOT anti-gun.  I believe in freedom.  I think a little restraint could go a long way, but that is not anti-gun, just pro-common sense.  I wish Scotland's gun laws were a little more lax - but that is another issue.

However, give desperate people guns and some of them will use them.  That is obvious.  History has shown it repeatedly. 

Admitedly:   "You're a new member here and yet you act as if you own the place. Obviously you think you know it all and that your opinion is the only one that matters and that viewpoint makes it impossible for you to participate in a discussion. Try to be objective, not subjective. There are some great people on here. And might I suggest that if you don't like the people on here, or their opinions, or the discussions, then perhaps you should go and find a different site full of people just like you and you can all be patriotic and angry together. "   was a bit more agressive - but that was self defence: give attacked people keyboards and some of them will use them. 

Look at history, people use what they have, is all she is saying.  Why the attacks?  I have never known KiwiMum to be unprovokedly rude and her point is a valid one.

Thanks for your support Techno, but I realise I might get a better discussion from a brick wall, than to try and talk to some of these people. It's just not worth the effort. You can't fix stupid.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 26 2020 at 4:15pm

Edit... it's a wonderful thing.

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