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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Trump tests positive for Covid.......

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EdwinSm, View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2020 at 10:33am

The timeline of information out of the White House seems suspect.    If the reports coming out are true then in seems Trump did a lot of travelling and meeting people after he was diagnosed.  That seem criminal to me.

Originally posted by "BBC Live News" "BBC Live News" wrote:

Sean Conley, the president’s physician, said Trump was diagnosed “72 hours ago” – which would be Wednesday morning. That’s before the president travelled to Minnesota for a campaign rally that night, before he flew to New Jersey for a fund-raiser on Thursday and more than 36 hours before the president revealed his coronavirus diagnosis to the world in a late-night tweet.

The timeline is further muddied by the revelation that the president was given an antiviral treatment sometime on Thursday – also before his announcement.

Conley tried to paint a positive picture of the president’s current medical condition, although he was evasive about whether Trump had ever been given oxygen to assist his breathing. 

And then, just minutes after the press conference concluded, an official struck a very different tone, telling the gathered press “the president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care”.

on the oxygen question BBC also reports

Quote Several US media are now reporting that President Trump was given oxygen at the White House before he left for hospital.

The New York Times quotes two people as saying that Trump had trouble breathing on Friday and "his oxygen level dropped", leading doctors to give him supplemental oxygen.

AP news agency is also reporting that he was given oxygen at the White House, quoting a source.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2020 at 10:36am

One month before Election Day, with ballots already being cast, President Donald Trump is in a military hospital, where he will remain for days, being treated for Covid-19, a disease that’s particularly dangerous for people of his age and weight. His physician Saturday morning said he’s doing well and is fever free, but declined to say when precisely he was diagnosed, how long he expects him to be in the hospital. Asked if the president was ever on supplemental oxygen, he was evasive.

Then, minutes later, a “source familiar with the president’s health” told a White House pool reporter this: “The president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care. We’re still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”

The public is being given conflicting messages about the commander in chief’s health, fueling speculation and sowing confusion.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-virus-slams-into-a-broken-washington/ar-BB19Fxsg?ocid=AMZN

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2020 at 10:40am

Great minds think alike Edwin!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2020 at 12:28pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by ViQueen24 ViQueen24 wrote:

https://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/watch/apparently-rapid-progression-of-trump-s-illness-raises-concerns-among-experts-93049925626

Thanks, and I concur!  

Trouble signs include fever, shortness of breath and fatigue.  As the virus infection ramps up, his body may become overwhelmed - this would include a cytokine storm in his lung tissue, tiny blood clots causing stroke and heart problems, kidney failure and other effects.  

It is telling that they immediately began slamming his body with unproven/experimental therapies (polyclonal antibodies and remdesivir).  I think they assume that, due to his likely exposure history (especially to Hope Hicks) and age/comorbid status, he received a high viral load and will have an accelerated disease course.  

I've read that his risk of death is 5% to 20%, which is considerable.  

I'm sure he has co-morbidities that we are not aware of. Given his age, his known unhealthy diet, lack of exercise and obvious obesity,  I suspect he has metabolic syndrome and is pre-diabetic, if not already diabetic. These are serious conditions that will affect his survival of Covid 19.

I do think it's odd that they are treating him as if he is already severely ill. I also think it must be a bit galling for Americans to see so much attention, resources and money being thrown at this man's illness when it's been denied to everyone else. And I concur with everyone above who has said karma's a bitch. What goes around comes around.

Trump is obviously trying to be like Putin and show no weakness. If he recovers from this I'm sure that we'll never know just how ill he was.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2020 at 4:23pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

I am an infectious disease specialist with extensive medical training....I predict, here and now, that Trump is going to suffer a stroke initiated by SARS-CoV2.  This virus has some nasty circulatory system effects and is implicated in causing strokes.  

Watch for it.  I think that is why they moved him to Walter Reed Hospital so quickly.  

Be safe, Chuck

I'd be surprised if they didn't have him on Heparin or Warfarin or some other heavy duty blood thinner.  

I was interested to learn they had him on melatonin.  That's a new one on me.  Any insight to that, Chuck?  

Hell, I take melatonin!  It is an over-the-counter sleep aid, works very well.  

He might end up on a blood thinner, although I don't know that those are clinically indicated with COVID.  He takes a low-dose aspirin (81 mg, I also take this) and statins (ditto).  We both have similar metabolic syndrome conditions.  

If he slides into a cytokine storm in his lungs & circulatory system, it will be hard to treat him.  They are now using steroids (dexamethasone) and I've long advocated monoclonal antibodies like Enbrel, Humira etc. which reduce the cytokine storm by targeting tumor necrosis factors, interleukins and other immune substances.  

The fact that they jumped right into experimental (not even approved) drugs is interesting.  My guess is that he really received a lungful of virus by hanging around Hicks and others, and is now paying the price.  I would not bet on his long-term survival - UK's Boris Johnson pulled through, but he is at least 20 years younger than Trump.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2020 at 6:22pm

I take melatonin (1.5mg) on those nights I have trouble sleeping too, Chuck.

I won't go as far as to say he won't pull through.  But it is disconcerting that he's feeling better today.  We've seen so many reports of patients seemingly getting better and suddenly turning critical. I think the next 48 to 72 hours will give us all the answer.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2020 at 6:33pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

I am an infectious disease specialist with extensive medical training....I predict, here and now, that Trump is going to suffer a stroke initiated by SARS-CoV2.  This virus has some nasty circulatory system effects and is implicated in causing strokes.  

Watch for it.  I think that is why they moved him to Walter Reed Hospital so quickly.  

Be safe, Chuck

I'd be surprised if they didn't have him on Heparin or Warfarin or some other heavy duty blood thinner.  

I was interested to learn they had him on melatonin.  That's a new one on me.  Any insight to that, Chuck?  

Hell, I take melatonin!  It is an over-the-counter sleep aid, works very well.  

He might end up on a blood thinner, although I don't know that those are clinically indicated with COVID.  He takes a low-dose aspirin (81 mg, I also take this) and statins (ditto).  We both have similar metabolic syndrome conditions.  

If he slides into a cytokine storm in his lungs & circulatory system, it will be hard to treat him.  They are now using steroids (dexamethasone) and I've long advocated monoclonal antibodies like Enbrel, Humira etc. which reduce the cytokine storm by targeting tumor necrosis factors, interleukins and other immune substances.  

The fact that they jumped right into experimental (not even approved) drugs is interesting.  My guess is that he really received a lungful of virus by hanging around Hicks and others, and is now paying the price.  I would not bet on his long-term survival - UK's Boris Johnson pulled through, but he is at least 20 years younger than Trump.  

Given the CDC's COVID survivability rate for his age group which is 94.6%, you wouldn't bet on his long term survival?  Interesting.

“Facts don't care about your feelings.”
― Ben Shapiro
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2020 at 6:59pm


Guess all the speculation about how bad his current condition is over.

“Facts don't care about your feelings.”
― Ben Shapiro
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2020 at 11:43pm
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 12:08am

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

I am an infectious disease specialist with extensive medical training....I predict, here and now, that Trump is going to suffer a stroke initiated by SARS-CoV2.  This virus has some nasty circulatory system effects and is implicated in causing strokes.  

Watch for it.  I think that is why they moved him to Walter Reed Hospital so quickly.  

Be safe, Chuck

I'd be surprised if they didn't have him on Heparin or Warfarin or some other heavy duty blood thinner.  

I was interested to learn they had him on melatonin.  That's a new one on me.  Any insight to that, Chuck?  

Hell, I take melatonin!  It is an over-the-counter sleep aid, works very well.  

He might end up on a blood thinner, although I don't know that those are clinically indicated with COVID.  He takes a low-dose aspirin (81 mg, I also take this) and statins (ditto).  We both have similar metabolic syndrome conditions.  

If he slides into a cytokine storm in his lungs & circulatory system, it will be hard to treat him.  They are now using steroids (dexamethasone) and I've long advocated monoclonal antibodies like Enbrel, Humira etc. which reduce the cytokine storm by targeting tumor necrosis factors, interleukins and other immune substances.  

The fact that they jumped right into experimental (not even approved) drugs is interesting.  My guess is that he really received a lungful of virus by hanging around Hicks and others, and is now paying the price.  I would not bet on his long-term survival - UK's Boris Johnson pulled through, but he is at least 20 years younger than Trump.  

Given the CDC's COVID survivability rate for his age group which is 94.6%, you wouldn't bet on his long term survival?  Interesting.

Nope.  Don't know where you found your numbers, his risk of death is 5% to 10%, depending upon comorbidities, overall health and other factors.  Of course, he's getting the BEST medical treatment in the world, but that cannot overcome what this virus does.   There is anecdotal evidence that he has had TIA or mild strokes, and SARS-CoV2 is implicated in stroke risk.  

My guess is that Trump was symptomatic quite longer than is being admitted - he minimized his condition (as many others in society do), and reports are that he was far sicker than has been generally reported.  A fever of 103ºF in a man his age & with his co-morbidities is very serious.  

After spending months denying the dangers of COVID-19, Trump is expressing an emotion aides have rarely seen: fear. On Friday, Trump grew visibly anxious as his fever spiked to 103 fahrenheit and he was administered oxygen at the White House, according to three Republicans close to the White House. Two sources told me Trump experienced heart palpitations on Friday night—possible side effects of the experimental antibody treatment he received. Trump has wondered aloud if he could defeat the disease.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 3:22am

Before Trump left the White House he was given remdesivir.   Any ideas as to why that was given at the White House, rather than in the hospital?


I can think of a number of possible answers (such as trying to avoid the need to go to hospital [this would destroy some of the macho image of being healthy], or at least delay that as long as possible, or as it is an experimental treatment the hospital might not have administered it and Trump wanted it).  but this is all wild speculation on my part so treat it as that.   

The lack of honest information does seem to fuel speculation!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 4:53am

99.7% survival rate across the entire population.

When you consider at least 2% of the population have comorbidity and are living on deaths door. The numbers are so low that Covid is a Powderpuff. EVEN THE GOVERNMENT NOW ADMIT IT.

Latest figures from the CDC https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

Age Group             Probability of Survival

0-19:                       99.997%

20-49:                     99.98%

50-69:                     99.5%

70+:                        94.6%


Trump will be fine.

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The fact is Trump is receiving a plethora of experimental treatments that the rest of the population does not have access to.  Granted, he is POTUS, but any bragging about how Covid is a powderpuff will ring hollow.

I'd like to add that I believe most members of this forum have a clear understanding of how far the CDC numbers are compromised by this administration.  

Any speculation aside, Trump is coming into the critical period in the next two or three days.  We won't know before then. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 5:36am

If Trump doesn't recover.....having the best treatment you can buy...

we all in 

s..t street.....

LMAO

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 6:34am

If he doesn't survive, then you can make fun of Pence.  You'll need to work up some new "nick-names".   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 11:30am

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:


I'd like to add that I believe most members of this forum have a clear understanding of how far the CDC numbers are compromised by this administration.  

 

Speculation not based in fact but rather based upon political rhetoric.

“Facts don't care about your feelings.”
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My point exactly, AI.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cindylouflu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 12:20pm

Long time, hope everyone is staying safe.

So  incredibly disgusted that our top leaders have been so reckless.  Zero effort with masking and social distancing while mocking others who do.   Inexcusable.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 12:21pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

My point exactly, AI.

You don't have a point you have a political position based upon nothing but personal speculation. Go ahead show me where anyone who is a professional is calling into question the survivability rates as presented by the CDC. If what you speculate were true it would be front and center on MSM. It's not wonder why LOL.  Short of facts, long on opinion and speculation yet again witchy. 

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Recommendations for Patients with COVID-19

  • On the basis of the preliminary report from the RECOVERY trial, the COVID-19 Treatment Guidelines Panel (the Panel) recommends using dexamethasone 6 mg per day for up to 10 days or until hospital discharge, whichever comes first, for the treatment of COVID-19 in hospitalized patients who are mechanically ventilated (AI) and in hospitalized patients who require supplemental oxygen but who are not mechanically ventilated (BI).
  • The Panel recommends against using dexamethasone for the treatment of COVID-19 in patients who do not require supplemental oxygen (AI).
  • If dexamethasone is not available, the Panel recommends using alternative glucocorticoids such as prednisonemethylprednisolone, or hydrocortisone (see Additional Considerations below for dosing recommendations)

https://www.covid19treatmentguidelines.nih.gov/immune-based-therapy/immunomodulators/corticosteroids/

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So trump is on dexamethasone.  A steroid.  Used to treat cytokine storms, I believe.

I won't say this development looks bad, but it certainly doesn't look good.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/04/trump-put-on-steroid-recommended-for-severe-covid-19-cases.html

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Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

So trump is on dexamethasone.  A steroid.  Used to treat cytokine storms, I believe.

I won't say this development looks bad, but it certainly doesn't look good.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/04/trump-put-on-steroid-recommended-for-severe-covid-19-cases.html

You are exactly correct, WM!  Here are some clues;

a) his doctor Conley said that "he is not being given supplemental oxygen."  I think it is very likely that Trump is now on a ventilator, which does not use supplemental oxygen but forces air into the lungs and supplements natural breathing.....he's likely unconscious right now. 

b) he's being given dexamethasone, which is reserved for seriously ill patients.  You are right, this is to counter-act the effect of the cytokine storm immune response.  They only use this in emergencies, as it also can inhibit the beneficial immune response.  

c) X-rays are said to be "as expected."  Why not "normal?"  I surmise that "as expected is double-speak for "as expected for someone slipping into COVID pneumonia, i.e. "ground glass opacities."

Be careful of disinformation.  We are likely to see pre-prepared video clips of Trump saying he is fine etc.  Trump is a TV veteran, he likely recorded an entire library of clips that can be shown to give the impression he is okay.  Watch for it.  

I'm not cheering for Trump to die, but he is responsible for over 200,000 US deaths at a rate of 1,000 per day right now.  His life is in God's hands.   

Proverbs 16:18


“Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.”

King James Version (KJV)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 1:41pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

So trump is on dexamethasone.  A steroid.  Used to treat cytokine storms, I believe.

I won't say this development looks bad, but it certainly doesn't look good.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/10/04/trump-put-on-steroid-recommended-for-severe-covid-19-cases.html

You are exactly correct, WM!  Here are some clues;

a) his doctor Conley said that "he is not being given supplemental oxygen."  I think it is very likely that Trump is now on a ventilator, which does not use supplemental oxygen but forces air into the lungs and supplements natural breathing.....he's likely unconscious right now. 

b) he's being given dexamethasone, which is reserved for seriously ill patients.  You are right, this is to counter-act the effect of the cytokine storm immune response.  They only use this in emergencies, as it also can inhibit the beneficial immune response.  

c) X-rays are said to be "as expected."  Why not "normal?"  I surmise that "as expected is double-speak for "as expected for someone slipping into COVID pneumonia," i.e. "ground glass opacities."

d) He is being given a bewildering array of new and/or experimental medications, i.e. remdesivir and polyclonal antibody cocktail.  One MD on TV correctly said that Trump is the first patient in history to receive these medications together.  This is clearly a sign of serious decline in his condition.  

Be careful of disinformation.  We are likely to see pre-prepared video clips of Trump saying he is fine etc.  Trump is a TV veteran, he likely recorded an entire library of clips that can be shown to give the impression he is okay.  Watch for it.  

I'm not cheering for Trump to die, but he is responsible for over 200,000 US deaths at a rate of 1,000 per day right now.  His life is in God's hands.   

Proverbs 16:18


“Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.”

King James Version (KJV)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 2:15pm

Doubtful he is on a ventilator. What are the HIPPA laws regarding the President? 

Still tweeting this afternoon...



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 2:23pm

Looks healthy in this video posted a few minutes ago...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1312864232711520257












19.7K views
0:14 / 1:13










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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 2:34pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

If he doesn't survive, then you can make fun of Pence.  You'll need to work up some new "nick-names".   

Thing is....

I've never heard Pence call names, make fun of any disabled person, been derogatory towards Woman(grab pussy)etc,

All of which I find disgusting

Chump on many many occasions has ...done these things 

Call himself a leader.....

Sorry he's just a C....hump

Hope he recovers from this......

But ends up as disabled as the person he MOCKED.....

LOWEST OF THE LOW MOCKING A DISABLED PERSON.......

Then he has the GAUL to hold up a Bible.......

Sick sick sick person....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 2:48pm

If the president were to go on a ventilator I presume he'd have to be unconscious (medically induced) and so wouldn't his vice president have to formally step up to run the country? It was my understanding that someone had to be in charge at all times and that's the VP's role in extremis.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 2:56pm

He looks fine.... 

Unless he has a body double......


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 3:02pm

White House: “President Trump took a short, last-minute motorcade ride to wave to his supporters outside and has now returned to the Presidential Suite inside Walter Reed.”

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 3:47pm

Well, of course he did!

To Trump, appearing for a publicity stunt is more important than the health of his security staff.

I am certain he will make a full and fast recovery.  After all he has had a whole team of doctors giving him all the most advanced treatments, unlike the poor folks whose Obamacare he worked so hard to remove.

I would also be surprised if he did not use his amazing recovery to forward his political aims too; instantly forgetting the 200K dead and twice that many with long term problems.


I have to give him his due.  He has no heart and limited brains, but a pair of testicles that he needs a wheelbarrow to carry around.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 7:49pm

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-is-receiving-lots-of-medical-care-and-some-doctors-wonder-if-it-s-too-much/ar-BB19GPqd?ocid=AMZN


Trump is receiving lots of medical care, and some doctors wonder if it's too much

 








Dr. Sean Conley did not answer several questions regarding Trump receiving oxygen

One potential downside to being president of the United States: too much care. 

Presidents have always received VIP medicine, but “excessive care isn’t necessarily good quality care,” said Dr. J. Randall Curtis, a professor of pulmonary and critical care at the University of Washington School of Medicine in Seattle.

The concern is that having too much focus and too many people involved could result in overtreatment as President Donald Trump is treated for COVID-19 at Walter Reed Military Medical Center.

Start the day smarter. Get all the news you need in your inbox each morning.

At a news conference Saturday, officials said Trump's medical team included three pulmonary critical care specialists, two infectious disease doctors, an anesthesiologist, an Army nurse, four Navy nurses, a clinical pharmacist and the director of the medical center's executive medicine program. That's in addition to the president's physician, Navy Cmdr. Sean Conley. 

a group of people standing in front of a building: Dr. Sean Conley, physician to President Donald Trump, briefs reporters at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Md., Saturday, Oct. 3, 2020. Trump was admitted to the hospital after contracting the coronavirus.© Susan Walsh, AP Dr. Sean Conley, physician to President Donald Trump, briefs reporters at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Md., Saturday, Oct. 3, 2020. Trump was admitted to the hospital after contracting the coronavirus.

Live updates on Trump and COVID-19: Sunday's latest news

Trump's health: President reports feeling better but next few days are 'the real test'

Conley said Saturday that he was using a "multi-prong" approach to treat Trump.

"He is receiving all of the standard of care and beyond for routine, international COVID protocols," Conley said. "He's the president. I didn't want to hold anything back. If there was any possibility that it would add value to his care and expedite his return, I wanted to take it."

Curtis acknowledged that as president, Trump and his medical team would want to have lots of input and options. Even so, other physicians noted overtreatment can be an easy trap to fall into with high-profile patients.

“It is common for people who hold positions of stature to get more aggressive care because there’s pressure to give someone everything imaginable. I would hope his physicians are being very deliberate in the treatment,” said Dr. Russell Buhr, a professor of pulmonary and critical care medicine at the University of California-Los Angeles.

That could explain why the president is receiving relatively aggressive treatment for someone whose physician has described him as “doing very well.”

“I don’t think we can speculate on the reasons behind the care,” Buhr said.

What do you want to know about Trump and COVID-19? We are answering reader questions. Submit your own using this form.

Remdesivir as a treatment: Trump was given it to fight his COVID-19 infection. What to know about it

Once Trump was hospitalized, his doctors began him on a course of remdesivir, a prominent experimental drug in the fight against the coronavirus that some clinical trials have shown can shorten the duration of the illness.

They later added the steroid dexamethasone, which has been shown to be life-saving in the sickest COVID-19 patients, but potential dangerous earlier in the course of the disease.



Where Trump traveled, who he met with the week before testing positive for COVID-19

A number of doctors and researchers reacted with dismay to the long list of drugs and vitamins Trump had been given during and before his hospitalizationMany of them have no strong evidence to support their use and none have been studied in combination.

"It's bad medicine and it's a bad message," said Dr. Vinay Prasad, a hematologist-oncologist at the University of California-San Francisco, who studies health policy, clinical trials and medical decision-making.

Bad medicine because of the lack of proof, he said, and a bad message because it suggests important people don't need to wait for the scientific process to unfold before getting access to unproven medicines.

Some medications will be safe and helpful, others will be unsafe and unhelpful or somewhere in between, and only rigorous clinical trials can reveal the difference, Prasad said.

"The best medicine is not to give drugs that have no proof," he said.

"It is interesting and a bit concerning that they are trying so many therapies that are both experimental and unproven," said Dr. Alden Landry, an emergency medicine physician at Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston. "This is not the typical treatment for patients especially at this (early) stage of the virus."

All treatments carry risks, and any one of the therapies Trump is taking might be harmful alone or in combination with other therapies, the doctors said.

What Trump has not been given is hydroxychloroquine, the malaria drug he had touted with little evidence and took briefly himself this spring. Studies since then have shown the drug is ineffective against COVID-19 and can be dangerous.

Trump had asked about the drug, Conley said Saturday, but was not receiving it.

Was Trump ever on oxygen? Health, security experts say America needs 'total honesty' on president's condition

Dexamethasone

Steroids are commonly given to reduce inflammation during an infection, and dexamethasone has been shown to reduce deaths among the sickest COVID-19 patients. 

Earlier in the course of COVID-19, steroids can actually be dangerous, though, because they tamp down the body's immune response, Topol said. 

"(My) main concern is the suppression of the immune response he needed," Topol added via email, "nd throwing in unnecessary, and experimental  drugs and unknown interactions."

Several doctors also wondered whether adding dexamethasone to the president's prescription list suggests he is more seriously ill than his doctors have admitted.

"If he IS truly sick enough to warrant dexamethasone and his doctors are not just throwing spaghetti at the wall, then the use of dexamethasone means they are minimizing how ill he is in their public pronouncements," said Dr. Nicholas Christakis, a physician and sociologist at Yale University, and author of a forthcoming book on the pandemic, called 

.

In one British trial, COVID-19 about 20% of patients who needed oxygen and got dexamethasone died within a month of receiving the drug. "You add in Trump's age and sex and obesity, it is not hard to feel he is facing a risk of death of perhaps 25%," Christakis contined. "That is quite serious, most doctors would say."

Monoclonal antibodies

When people battle disease, their immune system produces antibodies specific to that illness. With monoclonal antibodies, drug companies try to provide these same protective molecules to boost a patient's immune response.

Conley said Trump received an 8-gram dose of a drug, REGN-COV2, made by the pharmaceutical company Regeneron. It includes a combination of two monoclonal antibodies now being tested against COVID-19. Because it is still considered experimental REGN-COV2 is not yet available to the general public outside of clinical trials.

Dr. James Crowe Jr., who directs the Vanderbilt Vaccine Center in Nashville, Tennessee, said the downside of delivering more than one antibody is that it can dilute the power of the most potent one. The plus side is the virus is unlikely to escape when it is hit by two monoclonal antibodies at once, said Crowe, who is developing a different monoclonal antibody with drug giant AstraZeneca.

Regeneron recently released an analysis of its cocktail in 275 patients, showing it to be safe and to reduce a patient's viral load, though there's still no basis yet to conclude whether it is effective. 

Dr. Rajesh Gandhi, an infectious disease physician at Massachusetts General Hospital and Harvard Medical School in Boston, said he has given a similar drug made by Eli Lilly and Co. to his patients and is optimistic about the approach. 

"We think antibodies are most likely to work if given early," Gandhi said, which is probably why it was tried on the president so soon after his diagnosis. In many diseases, early treatment is more effective, he said, noting that “although the antibodies are promising, they are still experimental."

Dr. Ilan Schwartz, an infectious disease expert at the University of Alberta in Canada, agreed that it was reasonable to give Trump the antibody cocktail. "I think there's enough data to support that it's probably safe," he said. "It's certainly not ready for prime time, but in exceptional circumstances, it would be reasonable (to give to a patient)."

Dr. Eric Topol, director and founder of the Scripps Research Translational Institute in La Jolla, California, said he was surprised at how quickly Trump was able to obtain a dose of the experimental antibody mixture – within just a day of his diagnosis.

"They're pulling out all the stops," Topol said. "You just don't know whether it's because of the VIP syndrome – doing too much – or whether he's started to show some signs that it's taking a toll on his body."

Remdesivir

Remdesivir, sold by Gilead Sciences under the brand name Veklury, is an antiviral developed to treat Ebola that has been repurposed to treat COVID-19. Earlier this year, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration authorized its use in hospitalized patients, and although there have been shortages, the company now promises hospitals will have an ample supply.

Research shows the drug can shorten by several days the hospital stay of patients who are seriously ill, but not in intensive care. 

Remdesivir is generally given in a five-day course, intravenously. 

Dr. Brian Garibaldi, a pulmonary critical care doctor treating the president, said Saturday that Trump received his first dose Friday night and "our plan is to continue a five-day treatment course."  It's not clear whether that means Trump will stay at Walter Reed until he finishes the treatment.

Conley said he tried the combination of the antibodies and remdesivir because the two work in different, complementary ways. 

"We're maximizing all aspects of his care," Conley said, "attacking this virus in a  multi-prong approach."

Several of the doctors interviewed by USA TODAY supported the decision to try both drugs, though they noted that they've never been studied in combination.

Vitamins and over-the-counter remedies

Experts were perplexed by the remainder of items on the medication list released Friday, which included vitamin D, zinc, the antacid Pepcid, melatonin and aspirin. It's not clear whether Trump continued taking these after being hospitalized.

For vitamin D, research has shown that people who have low levels of the vitamin in their bodies fare worse when they contract COVID-19, but bringing levels above normal appears to do nothing. It's not clear whether Trump has a deficit of vitamin D, which is produced during exposure to direct sunlight and is also found in some foods.

Data also suggests patients with low levels of zinc in their blood fare worse with COVID-19 than those with normal levels. But again, there is no evidence that supplementing with zinc improves COVID-19 outcomes.

Researchers have suggested that melatonin, a natural sleep aid, may help reduce inflammation and therefore provide benefit to COVID-19 patients, though studies into its effectiveness are just beginning

The antacid famotidine, sold over the counter as Pepcid, also has been discussed as a possible treatment for COVID-19. The heartburn medicine is generally considered safe, and there is some data suggesting a benefit, but the research did not meet a high standard, and the improvement seen could have happened just by chance, Massachusetts General's Gandhi said. 

The Infectious Disease Society of America's treatment guidelines, which Gandhi helps write, recommends against using the medicine to treat COVID-19 outside of a clinical trial, "not because it has a lot of side effects – it's an antacid, it's available over the counter – it's just that there's not good evidence that it has a benefit," he said.

Aspirin is another head-scratcher, Prasad and others said. 

It is not uncommon for people who have had heart attack or stroke to take a baby aspirin a day to prevent a repeat, but there is no evidence the president takes it for that purpose. Because aspirin can thin the blood, it is generally not given to reduce a fever, which Trump had on Friday. 

Prasad said he's not sure why Trump would be given any one of these unproven therapies, no less the combination. "I have some question marks about why he's taking them," Prasad said. "They're not likely to be beneficial."

Contact Karen Weintraub at kweintraub@usatoday.com and Elizabeth Weise at eweise@usatoday.com

Health and patient safety coverage at USA TODAY is made possible in part by a grant from the Masimo Foundation for Ethics, Innovation and Competition in Healthcare. The Masimo Foundation does not provide editorial input

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JellyMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2020 at 9:36pm

Enough with the speculation and why would you even believe what you hear from the media about what medication he is on or was given at the White House. HIPPA laws prevent the disclosure. And CRS, can you be unconscious and on a ventilator while you’re waving from a car window? This site has become a joke. No real informative information anymore, just a lot of people speculating about everything and I’m tired of all the political posts. Besides, FluMom, who was unfairly attacked by some on here and ultimately left, where have all the veterans of this site gone? No doubt they found another site that offers informative info.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 1:34am

JellyMama, with all respect-what I see-and find very informative-is people giving info on when what medication is used and relating that to the information of what medication the US president is getting. 

This is NOT a scientific forum full of experts, more of people sharing the same interests...so there should even-with respect-be some room for speculation.

Somehow I have in my head Trump may die on october 10 from heart failure, Joseph Biden will die "in the month of his birth" ...now that is "speculation"...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 6:20am

Because it isn't the media that's speculating what drugs/treatment he's getting.  It's the Walter Reed doctors announcing what drugs/treatment he's getting in their daily press briefings.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 7:08am

Yes, and since they can't all get their stories straight, what is there to do but speculate?  I was watching my local news Friday, when CBS broke in, as they were getting ready to load Trump in the chopper to go to Walter Reed, and Norah O'Donnell and the correspondent she was talking to went on for a few minutes about how customarily the media was kept apprised of a president's condition -- briefings, etc., And how closed-mouthed this administration was being, and they were giving examples of how normally they'd get a briefing at so-and-so time by this one and that one.  And they were getting nothing.  And now we get word from a couple different ones and they don't agree.  Makes you wonder.

And I don't know, FluMom aside, we still have KiwiMum and Chuck, Techno, Hachi, Pixie, Dutch Josh, Carbon, Penham and others weighing in, and some newer folks like Witchy that are making some really great contributions.  I have been wondering if anyone has heard from JohnRay or Medclinician lately?

Nothing stays the same long, and with political conditions, especially in the US being what they are, there is contention everywhere.  We have become polarized.  A friend and I just had a set-to on Saturday when I called her out on some racist/apologetics comments she was making.  It's the way things are right now.  Why would this site be any different?  I think the mods, Techno especially, are doing a great job.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 7:36am

I think because he is POTUS, the normal rules are bent for National administrative reasons.  The people need to know how their leader is.  It is part of the price of power.  You can be sure we are only getting part of the story though.


As for FluMom, Jellymama:  I miss her and wish she would return.  I was rather fond of her - although she did often attack me.  However, she was not banned; she only had her moderatorship withdrawn, as she made a clearly racist comment.  Her punishment was harsh, but not completely unfair.*  She may not be a moderator anymore, but it is her own choice not to return to the forum.


Chuck IS one of our more senior members.  OK not the oldest, he joined in 2014. His speculation (and that is certainly what it was) was based on current medical recommendations for dexamethasone (which is usually only given to ventilator patients - once again, different rules for the POTUS) and was made before the Tweets from hospital and Trump's cavalier drive-around.   So he got it wrong, but for all the right reasons.  I for one appreciate an expert's guesses on things.  No substitute for facts, but far better than nothing at all.  

But I do miss FluMom, Jacksdad and quite a few others.  Heigh ho, times change.





*I might have been a bit more lenient left to my own devices, but I can be a pushover at times.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 7:40am

Thank you, ViQueen!  I needed to hear that.  This can be a rather thankless job and you can't please everyone - however hard you try :(

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 8:15am

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I think because he is POTUS, the normal rules are bent for National administrative reasons.  The people need to know how their leader is.  It is part of the price of power.  You can be sure we are only getting part of the story though.


As for FluMom, Jellymama:  I miss her and wish she would return.  I was rather fond of her - although she did often attack me.  However, she was not banned; she only had her moderatorship withdrawn, as she made a clearly racist comment.  Her punishment was harsh, but not completely unfair.*  She may not be a moderator anymore, but it is her own choice not to return to the forum.


Chuck IS one of our more senior members.  OK not the oldest, he joined in 2014. His speculation (and that is certainly what it was) was based on current medical recommendations for dexamethasone (which is usually only given to ventilator patients - once again, different rules for the POTUS) and was made before the Tweets from hospital and Trump's cavalier drive-around.   So he got it wrong, but for all the right reasons.  I for one appreciate an expert's guesses on things.  No substitute for facts, but far better than nothing at all.  

But I do miss FluMom, Jacksdad and quite a few others.  Heigh ho, times change.





*I might have been a bit more lenient left to my own devices, but I can be a pushover at times.

Thanks, Techno!  COVID-19 is a dynamic infection - patients go through various stages including inapparent infection (when a patient like Trump is shedding copious quantities of virus, but have mild or no symptoms) all the way to fulminant disease, including signs/symptoms like fever, cough etc. 

It is not unusual for COVID patients to get sick, seem to recover as the immune system ramps up, and then "fall off the cliff" (you see this phrase quite a bit in the literature). 

Trump isn't apparently on a ventilator yet, but I am willing to bet he is on breathing assistance, based upon the steroid administration.  The Brits use CPAP machines and have had good outcomes.  This is a lesser level of breathing assistance than ventilator. 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/26/only-half-of-uks-sickest-coronavirus-patients-put-on-ventilators

The alternatives to mechanical ventilation include continuous positive airway pressure (Cpap). Cpap machines are a type of ventilator that uses a mask but delivers air at mild pressure without taking over the function of the lungs. It is believed Boris Johnson was treated with Cpap.

Don't be tricked by Trump's games of videos, rides etc.  He's quite ill and this will be apparent.  All he is doing is putting others at risk and risking his own life by going against medical recommendations.  I don't want him to die, just lose the election.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 11:59am

Trump is poised to leave Walter Reed Hospital at 6.30pm today.  I don't know how ill he was (some of the info suggests: "quite") but he is clearly on the mend.  To me it seems his recovery was almost guaranteed, with a team of doctors and every therapy on the books.  His behaviours however, spread this disease among many others, who do not have that battery of medicine to aid them.  Some of those who will be affected are among his own staff.  

I know I could say:  "Well, that's karma for working for that toad." but they are human beings, with loved ones, lovers and families, dependants and even pets who depend on them.  

I confess, I detest Trump!  But I don't detest Republicans; even if I did, their right to life remains unchanged.  How can anyone risk the lives of their family, friends and colleagues, those who aid,  support and promote them?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:08pm

On the BBC just now:  "There are now more cases of coronavirus in the white house than in some countries!"

'Nuff said!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:43pm

Originally posted by JellyMama JellyMama wrote:

Enough with the speculation and why would you even believe what you hear from the media about what medication he is on or was given at the White House. HIPPA laws prevent the disclosure. And CRS, can you be unconscious and on a ventilator while you’re waving from a car window? This site has become a joke. No real informative information anymore, just a lot of people speculating about everything and I’m tired of all the political posts. Besides, FluMom, who was unfairly attacked by some on here and ultimately left, where have all the veterans of this site gone? No doubt they found another site that offers informative info.


Flumom wasn't unfairly attacked by some on here. She was racist, used the N word and then refused to apologise. Enough said.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 12:50pm

I find it interesting that Trump hid his planned drive by from the media. In fact I read this morning that the media were specifically told that there would be nothing else happening that day and so they went home. And then Trump did his drive by. I can't understand why any politician would set out to make an enemy of the media, they hold so much power but it was reported here that he didn't like how they were speculating on his condition and how they were not taking his official statements as gospel. I can see why they weren't though, as even his own people are releasing mixed messages.

You can't fix stupid.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 1:28pm

I had wondered what the status of the US President's "nuclear football" was.  Now we know:

US President’s ‘nuclear football’ briefcase that holds missile launch codes was loaded onto Marin One when Donald Trump was taken to Walter Reed Medical Centre for COVID-19 treatment, the Daily Mail reported on October 3.

Officially called the ‘Presidential Emergency Satchel’, the US President is always followed by the case along with a military aide wherever he goes in order to be prepared for unprecedented circumstances. However, as per reports, even Trump’s COVID-19 diagnosis was not enough to stop the procedure from being followed as the briefcase was snapped taken inside the helicopter.

https://www.republicworld.com/world-news/us-news/trumps-nuclear-football-briefcase-with-missile-launch-codes-at-walt.html  


I'm a bit nervous that the US President, who is infected with a virus known to cause cognition problems and treated with steroids that have the same effect, is joy-riding around!  Who approved this stuff??

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2020 at 2:43pm

I'm not at all worried........

It's all a 

CON JOB.....

Just drink the "Snake oil"......

"and don't worry about the wuflu"......

Look at me" I'm A OK" 

Nothing to see here.......





Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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