Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Main Forums > Latest News
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - UK:" PNEUMONIA" Kills 18-year old
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

UK:" PNEUMONIA" Kills 18-year old

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: UK:" PNEUMONIA" Kills 18-year old
    Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:32am
PNEUMONIA CLAIMS LIFE OF POPULAR STUDENT


Isle of Wight (English Channel) - excerpt March 7/06

A POPULAR Sandown girl has died suddenly of double pneumonia just
hours after returning with friends from a holiday in Spain.

Sandown High A-level student Sarah Clatworthy, 18, died on Saturday
morning at Barnet General Hospital after a four-day break to Barcelona to
celebrate the 18th birthday of one of the group.

Her mother Rosemarie, 51, had raced from her home to be at her
daughter's side.Sarah's boyfriend, marine electrician Dan Muir, 18, also
made the desperate journey in the early hours of Saturday but he arrived
shortly after Sarah's death. This week as they struggled to come to terms
with the tragedy, the close-knit family paid tribute to their 'princess'.

Though Sarah began to feel poorly before leaving for Barcelona, she
insisted on flying out to celebrate the 18th birthday of her long-standing
friend Sarah Giddins.Though she enjoyed the early part of the trip, she
became steadily more ill and sought treatment in Barcelona.

Her condition became worse as she waited for hours at the airport for her
flight home.Back in the UK, she continued to deteriorate and Sarah
Giddins' parents called the emergency services from their Barnet home.
She was rushed to hospital and her family and friends back home were
informed.

Mrs Clatworthy said: "When I got to the hospital I was in denial. I was
asking doctors when she would be coming home. It never occurred to ask
whether she was going to live or die.

"The doctors said I should think about getting the rest of the family to the
hospital and I remember thinking that sounded strange.

A funeral service will be held at Christ Church, Sandown, at 11am on
Tuesday followed by cremation at the IW Crematorium.


http://www.iwcp.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?
SectionID=1252&ArticleID=1365844



http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_3029.sh tml
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:35am

Rick, I will give you 1k if you can locate patient zero.

And there are no hidden terms in fine print.

In monthly payments over 10 years.

 

Back to Top
virusil View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member


Joined: February 26 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 450
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote virusil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:38am
poor girl........
ignorance.
Back to Top
RainBow View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RainBow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:44am
Are you suggesting that this may have been bird flu? Peopld do die of pneumonia. My brother's wife just died in January out in Vancouver from pneumonia 17 hours after getting to the hospital.  She was sick for a couple of days as was my brother and their son. They got better she didn't. All of her organs shut down one at a time. This does happen and we should not jump the gun everytime someone is sick with respiratory illness.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:55am
Originally posted by RainBow RainBow wrote:

Are you suggesting that this may have been bird flu?
Peopld do die of pneumonia. My brother's wife just died in January out in
Vancouver from pneumonia 17 hours after getting to the hospital.  She
was sick for a couple of days as was my brother and their son. They got
better she didn't. All of her organs shut down one at a time. This does
happen and we should not jump the gun everytime someone is sick with
respiratory illness.


I don't know what the cause of her death was and
nobody else does.

Pneumonia is a symptom, not the underlying pathology or cause. When
famous entertainers (Rock Hudson, Librace) died, the public was told
death was from pneumonia, not HIV as later revealed.

You can just as easily say that everyone that has ever died of Bird Flu,
died from Pneumonia. H5N1 is the underlying pathology that causes
pneumonia followed by death. I hope this makes sense.

Nothing was said as to what caused the Pneumonia in an otherrwise
healthy looking 18-year old, judging by a recent photo on the website.
My son is 18-years. If this happened to him, I would not accept
Pneumonia, I would want to know what the cause was, especially if
acquired outside a hospital.

Only a proper medical exam would reveal her true cause of death. Her
cremation may be an impediment to revealing the cause.

* I'm aware of hospital acquired infections and all of the issues around
the subject. A Canadian hospital is the best place to acquire C.
Difficile.This teen was not in a hospital before her trip.
Back to Top
RainBow View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RainBow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 7:41am

Pneumonia is caused by virus or bacteria isn't it? I thought that the bacteria that causes pneumonia lives in the back of our throats at all times and during a period when your body is weak from a flu or cold, this bacteria will then move down the throat into your lungs where it grows and causes the complications of pneumonia.  

My brother knows a man in Vancouver who's 18 year old, healthy sports active son died from the same type of pneumonia as my sister-in-law. All that I am saying is that there are many times where pneumonia may cause death and it isn't always bird flu.

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:01am


"Pneumonia is caused by virus or bacteria". Yes. The problem is that the
doctors don't know if it was a virus or bacteria. Unless you have a
laboratory analysis, then it's simply guessing. I agree "many times
pneumonia may cause death". Pneumonia is a by-product.

If you are unable to drive your car because you have a flat tire, it's
because something caused the tire to go flat. A deflated tire (Pneumonia)
is not the cause of the flat, its caused by something else. I'm sorry that
healthy 18-year olds die of pneumnonia in Vancouver without the cause/
underlying patholgy being elucidated.

For some unexplainable reason, the cause was not determined in this
case either, if it was my son, I would want an answer.

Back to Top
AnnE View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:07am

FYI, from the Merck Manual Online

Pneumonia is an infection of the small air sacs of the lungs (alveoli) and the tissues around them.

In the United States, about 2 million people develop pneumonia each year, and 40,000 to 70,000 of them die. Often, pneumonia is the final illness in people who have other serious, chronic diseases. It is the sixth most common cause of death overall, and the most common fatal infection acquired in hospitals. In developing countries, pneumonia is either the leading cause of death or second only to dehydration from severe diarrhea.

The setting in which pneumonia develops is one of the most important features to doctors. Pneumonia may develop in people living in the community (community-acquired pneumonia), in the hospital (hospital-acquired pneumonia), or in some other institutional setting, such as a nursing home (institution-acquired pneumonia). The setting often helps determine what infecting organism is responsible for the pneumonia. For example, community-acquired pneumonia is more likely to stem from infection with the gram-positive bacterium Streptococcus pneumoniae. Hospital-acquired pneumonia is more likely to be caused by Staphylococcus aureus or a gram-negative bacterium, such as Klebsiella pneumoniae or Pseudomonas aeruginosa. Depending on the infecting organism, there is usually a difference in the severity of pneumonia and the way it is treated (for example, whether with oral drugs at home or with intravenous drugs in the hospital).

Another critical feature is whether the pneumonia occurs in a healthy person or in someone who has an impaired immune system. Certain drugs (such as corticosteroids) can impair the immune system, as can the presence of diseases, such as AIDS. Sometimes the immune system can be worn down by a severe acute or chronic illness, as is often the case with older people. A person who has an impaired immune system is far more likely to contract pneumonia, including pneumonia caused by unusual organisms; this person may not respond as well to treatment as someone whose immune system is healthy. Other conditions that predispose certain people to pneumonia include alcoholism, cigarette smoking, diabetes, heart failure, and chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. The very young and very old are at higher-than-average risk. Also at risk are people who are debilitated, bedridden, paralyzed, or unconscious.

Causes

Pneumonia is not a single illness but rather many different ones, each caused by a different microscopic organism—whether it is a bacterium, virus, or fungus. Usually pneumonia starts after organisms are inhaled into the lungs, but sometimes the infection is carried to the lungs by the bloodstream or it migrates to the lungs directly from a nearby infection. Pneumonia may follow surgery, particularly abdominal surgery, or an injury (trauma), particularly a chest injury, because of the resulting shallow breathing, impaired ability to cough, and retention of mucus. Sometimes pneumonia occurs when particles from the mouth are inhaled and are not cleared, or when an obstruction (such as a tumor) causes bacteria to become trapped. The former type is called aspiration pneumonia; the latter type is called obstructive pneumonia.

Symptoms and Diagnosis

The most common symptom of pneumonia is a cough that produces sputum. Other common symptoms include chest pain, chills, fever, and shortness of breath. These symptoms may vary, however, depending on how extensive the disease is and which organism is causing it.

A doctor or nurse checks for pneumonia by listening to the chest with a stethoscope. Pneumonia usually produces distinctive sounds; these abnormal sounds are caused by narrowing of airways or filling of the normally air-filled parts of the lung with inflammatory cells and fluid, a process called consolidation.

In most cases, the diagnosis of pneumonia is confirmed with a chest x-ray. For most bacterial pneumonias, the involved tissue of the lung appears on the x-ray as a dense white patch (because the x-ray beam does not get through), compared with nearby healthy lung tissue that appears black (because the x-rays get through easily, exposing the film). Viral pneumonias typically produce faint, widely scattered white streaks or patches. Some pneumonias can lead to a lung abscess (see Abscess in the Lungs: Lung Abscess), which appears on the x-ray as a space filled with fluid (pus). There may be changes at the top of the lung, suggesting tuberculosis (see Tuberculosis). Thus, the x-ray may (but not always) help a doctor determine which organism is causing the disease.

Doctors culture sputum and blood specimens in an attempt to identify the organism causing pneumonia. However, despite these tests, the precise organism cannot be identified in up to half of people who have pneumonia. When it is necessary to identify the organism, such as when the person is severely ill and is not responding well to therapy, doctors can try to obtain better specimens by inserting a bronchoscope into the airways (bronchoscopy (see Symptoms and Diagnosis of Lung Disorders: Bronchoscopy).

Prevention and Treatment

Several types of pneumonia can be prevented with the use of vaccines. Vaccines are available to protect against pneumococcal pneumonia, pneumonia caused by the bacterium Haemophilus influenzae, and pneumonia caused by the influenza virus, which also often leads to a secondary bacterial pneumonia.

Deep-breathing exercises and therapy to clear secretions help prevent pneumonia in people at high risk, such as those who have had chest or abdominal surgery and those who are debilitated.

People with pneumonia also need to clear secretions and benefit from deep-breathing exercises and therapy as well. If people with pneumonia are short of breath or their blood is low in oxygen, supplemental oxygen is provided. Although rest is an important part of treatment, moving often and getting out of bed and into a chair are encouraged.

Usually antibiotics are started whenever bacterial pneumonia is suspected (including obstructive pneumonia), even before the bacteria is identified. The prompt use of antibiotics likely reduces the severity of pneumonia and the chance of developing complications, some of which can lead to death.

When choosing an antibiotic, doctors consider which bacteria is likely to be the cause. The doctor can change the choice of antibiotic later, after the bacteria has been identified and its susceptibility to various antibiotics known. Often, people who have pneumonia but are not very sick can take oral antibiotics and remain at home. Older people and those who are short of breath or have preexisting heart or lung disease are generally hospitalized and given intravenous antibiotics to start. Those antibiotics are usually switched to oral ones after a few days. These people may also need supplemental oxygen, intravenous fluids, and mechanical respiratory support (see Respiratory Failure: Mechanical Ventilation).

Antibiotics are not helpful for viral pneumonias. However, antibiotics are given for viral pneumonias that are likely to be followed by bacterial infections, such as those caused by respiratory syncytial virus infection in infants and sometimes those caused by the influenza virus, at least in some people who are very susceptible to pneumonia.

 

 

 

Preventing Certain Pneumonias With Vaccines

Although not all pneumonias can be prevented, certain pneumonias can be prevented with immunizations. For example, pneumococcal pneumonia, which is caused by Streptococcus pneumoniae, can be prevented with the pneumococcal pneumonia vaccine. This vaccine protects people from serious pneumococcal infections. Vaccination is recommended for people at high risk of pneumococcal pneumonia—such as all those older than 65 and younger adults who have lung or heart disease, weakened immune systems, or diabetes. The protection from vaccination may last a lifetime, although it is recommended that people at highest risk be revaccinated after 5 years. Although temporary soreness at the site of injection is common, only 1% of people develop a fever and muscle pain after vaccination. Even fewer people have a severe allergic reaction. Pregnant women should not receive this vaccine.

Pneumonia caused by Haemophilus influenzae type b strain can be prevented with the Haemophilus influenzae type b vaccine. This vaccine is recommended for all children. The vaccine is given in three doses—at ages 2 months, 4 months, and 6 months.

Pneumonia caused by the influenza virus can be prevented with the influenza vaccine. Annual influenza vaccinations are recommended for health care workers, older people, and people with chronic conditions such as emphysema, diabetes, heart disease, and kidney disease. Vaccination should take place every year during the fall (September through November), so that levels of antibodies will be highest during the peak influenza months—November through March. A different vaccine is introduced every year based on predictions of which strains are most likely to cause influenza.

Pneumonia caused by the chickenpox virus may be prevented with the chickenpox vaccine. Pneumonia caused by this virus is very rare. Vaccination in children is with one dose. All children aged 12 to 18 months of age should be routinely vaccinated. Children between 18 months and 12 years should be vaccinated, unless testing indicates a natural immunity from a previous infection. Vaccination without testing is acceptable, because vaccination appears to be safe even if a person has had chickenpox. In people 13 years and older, vaccination should be given only if testing does not indicate natural immunity. For these people, two doses are given 4 to 8 weeks apart.

 

 

 

      Streptococcus pneumoniae (pneumococcus)

*                                                             Penicillin

*                                                             Amoxicillin

*                                                             Cephalosporins

*                                                             Erythromycin

*                                                             Azithromycin

*                                                             Clarithromycin

*                                                             Fluoroquinolones

*                                  Haemophilus influenzae

*                                                             Cephalosporins (2nd and 3rd generation)

*                                                             Amoxicillin-clavulanate

*                                                             Azithromycin

*                                                             Fluoroquinolones

*                                                             Trimethoprim-sulfamethoxazole

*                                  Legionella pneumophila

*                                                             Erythromycin (with or without rifampin)

*                                                             Azithromycin

*                                                             Fluoroquinolones

*                                  Mycoplasma pneumoniae

*                                                             Erythromycin

*                                                             Doxycycline

*                                                             Azithromycin

*                                                             Clarithromycin

*                                                             Fluoroquinolones

*                                  Chlamydia pneumoniae

*                                                             Erythromycin

*                                                             Doxycycline

*                                                             Azithromycin

*                                                             Clarithromycin

*                                                             Fluoroquinolones

*                                  Staphylococcus aureus

*                                                             Cephalosporins (1st generation)

*                                                             Nafcillin

*                                                             Oxacillin

*                                                             Vancomycin

*                                  Anaerobic bacteria

*                                                             Clindamycin

*                                                             Metronidazole

*                                  Gram-negative bacteria

*                                                             Imipenem

*                                                             Cephalosporins (3rd and 4th generation)

*                                                             Aminoglycosides

*                                                             Fluoroquinolones

*                                   

*                                   

*                                                             Newer fluoroquinolones =

*                                                             levofloxacin, monifloxacin, gatifloxacin

Last reviewed/revised February 1, 2003

 

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:19am
Thanks, I thought I'd try the short answer first.
Back to Top
AnnE View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:24am
Oops.  Sorry if that was too detailed.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:33am

Originally posted by AnnE AnnE wrote:

Oops.  Sorry if that was too detailed.

No AnnE, your rock, I learned much from your post. Post on!

Back to Top
Tired View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 13 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tired Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:42am
Couldnt it just be  that she died of pnemonia? It said that she had been feeling ill prior to leaving, so she could have had the flu, the normal flu. Both my husband and my youngest child have caught pnemonia after a flu bug.

Although it's possible, we cant assume that EVERY death from here on out is somehow linked to a BF infection.

Better to be safe than sorry....
Back to Top
RainBow View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RainBow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:49am
Rick I do understand what you are saying about the 'flat tire' and pneumonia being a symptom caused by something else. I was just trying to point out that all cases of pneumonia are not caused from bird flu, and I do agree that the family should have that possibility ruled out.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:54am
Originally posted by Tired Tired wrote:

Couldnt it just be  that she died of pnemonia? It said that
she had been feeling ill prior to leaving, so she could have had the flu,
the normal flu. Both my husband and my youngest child have caught
pnemonia after a flu bug.

Although it's possible, we cant assume that EVERY death from here on out
is somehow linked to a BF infection.


It's like saying someone died of lead posioning,
from a 38 calibre bullet. Sure you can call it lead poisoning, or
pneumonia. I would prefer to know what caused the "lead poisoning".

I do not assume to know the cause of death and neither does anyone
here. We are simply looking for answers by pooling our collective
resources and examining information from all angles.

Being uninformed will not make the reason why you are reading this
go away.

The medical profession has an interesting term called an Iatrogenic
illness.

"What does the word "iatrogenic" mean?

Iatros means physician in Greek, and -genic, meaning induced by, is
derived from the International Scientific Vocabulary. Combined, of course,
they become iatrogenic, meaning physician-induced. Iatrogenic disease is
obviously, then, disease which is caused by a physician."

It's sounds a lot better than we made a mistake.

It does not matter what you call, the results are the same.
My 2-cents.
Back to Top
cosmicpixie View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 13 2006
Location: United Kingdom
Status: Offline
Points: 89
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cosmicpixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:07am

I'm not sure why you posted that story as it doesn't link to bird flu in any realistic way really-the girl is from the UK,we haven't even had a case of flu in poultry confirmed yet,and the article states she felt ill even before going to Spain.By posting stuff like this,I can't help but feel a bit annoyed as it's as if any story whatsoever about some poor person dying of anything remotely flu related is all of a sudden treated as suspicious and worthy of discussion.I don't think this story really does,does it??

Back to Top
Tired View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 13 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tired Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:30am
Originally posted by Rick Rick wrote:

Originally posted by Tired Tired wrote:

Couldnt it just be  that she died of pnemonia? It said that
she had been feeling ill prior to leaving, so she could have had the flu,
the normal flu. Both my husband and my youngest child have caught
pnemonia after a flu bug.

Although it's possible, we cant assume that EVERY death from here on out
is somehow linked to a BF infection.


It's like saying someone died of lead posioning,
from a 38 calibre bullet. Sure you can call it lead poisoning, or
pneumonia. I would prefer to know what caused the "lead poisoning".

I do not assume to know the cause of death and neither does anyone
here. We are simply looking for answers by pooling our collective
resources and examining information from all angles.

Being uninformed will not make the reason why you are reading this
go away.

The medical profession has an interesting term called an Iatrogenic
illness.

"What does the word "iatrogenic" mean?

Iatros means physician in Greek, and -genic, meaning induced by, is
derived from the International Scientific Vocabulary. Combined, of course,
they become iatrogenic, meaning physician-induced. Iatrogenic disease is
obviously, then, disease which is caused by a physician."

It's sounds a lot better than we made a mistake.

It does not matter what you call, the results are the same.
My 2-cents.


Rick,

My point was that we cant assume that every death here on out is going to be related to BF somehow.

Im just trying to keep a level head during all of this. I just cant understand why when someone dies it is automatically lumped in with BF.

People die of pnemonia ALL the time. Im just saying that it is going to get really tiresome assuming that from now on all pnemonia deaths are associated with BF.

Of course, this is JMO.
 

Better to be safe than sorry....
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:34am


The truth is the first casualty of any war. I'm simply looking for the
causalties.

Death is easy, living can be tiresome.
Back to Top
Tired View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 13 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tired Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:41am
Rick,

When you say the "truth is the first casualty for war" makes me think that you suspect that she died of BF and that someone is covering that up.

True, this is not impossible, but it is unlikely. People die of pneomina, and people die of the flu...ALL the time!! This has happened for YEARS...way before H5N1 was even in our vocabulary!!!



Better to be safe than sorry....
Back to Top
Tansau View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 17 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 126
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tansau Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:43am
Personally, I like to see the "big picture." Whether it is confirmed, suspected,
related, symptomatically similar, or officially "ABBF", I prefer to hear about
the reported illnesses so that we can review and draw independant
conclusions.

As long as everyone recognizes that this is "raw data" and is not neccessarily
Bird Flu just because it is posted in a Bird Flu forum, there shouldn't be a
problem. Keep up the good work, Rick. Your efforts are much appreciated.

My $.02, anyway.
Back to Top
Falcon View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: February 20 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 684
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Falcon Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:44am

true that a lot of people die from it, my grandfather died all those years ago from it.

 

But the fact she was in spain and spain is not too far from some hot zones does make me kind off eerie, didn't anyone look at the map?  its two continents over from switzerland

Back to Top
AnnE View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:52am
All good points.  Consider how she got to and from Spain.  On an airplane.  Who was she on the plane with?  Where were they from and were any of them infected?  Who knows.  All speculation at this point. All good questions, but that's all. Speculations and questions. As long as we're clear.
Back to Top
RainBow View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2006
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 46
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RainBow Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 10:11am
Rick's efforts ARE much appreciated!  
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 10:20am

Good post Rick, I would have posted it too.  After all she was a healthy 18 year.  Who knows what got her.  So we can't rule her out either as a BF.

All in all very sad.

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 10:58am
Originally posted by Tired Tired wrote:

Rick,

When you say the "truth is the first casualty for war" makes me think
that you suspect that she died of BF and that someone is covering that
up.

True, this is not impossible, but it is unlikely. People die of
pneomina, and people die of the flu...ALL the time!! This has happened
for YEARS...way before H5N1 was even in our vocabulary!!!




The purpose of the entire Forum is informed speculation, in one form or
another so that we can move towards the truth. The truth is the only
thing that will ultimately help all of us. It is the only way I know how.

It's unimportant what, I think.

This is an information pot-luck, everyone brings something to the table,
so if you don't like cabbage rolls, don't eat them, but I will :-)


Back to Top
Corn View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: December 13 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1219
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 11:00am

If we waited for confirmed bird flu news to post we wouldn't have any news.

And the news we would have would be weeks, months out of date.

It only takes 30 days estimated for a bug , any bug to circle the world.

I want any data that I can draw from. little pieces of the puzzle that make up the big picture.

Post don't have to say bird flu related to be put up.

Give me all you've got.

May belief is that it is H2H and will be here, there and everywhere in about a week or so from now.  Call it hoof and mouth. call it BSE, call it menegitis, call it mysterious fever, call it stop breathing desiease. It is here on the planet and it is comming to a theater near you.

Cut the denial. Watch the unobvious and be ready in an instant to do whatevr it is you plan.

A week or so from now. no longer.

and if I'm wrong you can laugh me off this forum.

Read the news. put the puzzle together.

the puzzle is saying.........A week or so from now. no longer.

and that's my two cents.

Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 11:12am

My 2 cents......... I would rather we have more information than not enough.  I also like the broad picture.  There is some indication that during 1918 and the lead-up there were other diseases that struck with uncharacteristic severity. But who knows if those other illnesses weren't ABBF too...of course they didn't know about AI back then... but I think you know what I'm getting at.

So as far as I'm concerned the more the merrier... let me decide what's relevant and what's not.

SZ

Back to Top
drpepper View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 08 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 71
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drpepper Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 11:29am
im with you corn, they can laugh at both of us

every day the news is getting clearer and clearer, pieces of the puzzle falling in and it doesnt take a scientist to read between all these lines.

bird flu is everywhere. the virus lives to kill, thats its only job. its systematically mutating to destroy virtually every living thing in its path. are we so arrogant as to think it wont be us? our governments and our scientists cant make it all better for us.

responsibility is on each of us. time for denial is over.

our time of "life as normal" is over already........

the s%*# is hitting the proverbial fan with gross velocity.

a week or 2.......im calling it the 2 week wait........anyone in?
Back to Top
Chicken Hawk View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chicken Hawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 11:42am

Did it say anywhere in the article that it was a suspected bird flu case? I don't think so, so to me it wasn't relevant, sorry to hear about the young girl, but unless these stories are somehow bird flu related I don't see the point in posting them.

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 11:54am

I would rather have my head up and into the wind, when this storm hits.  I think we have a while yet.  I will be looking at Who to see what they have to say, after this meetings, that are ongoing this week.

Hopefully some leadership!!  IMO only, Corn you may be very right, and I am in the sand again.

Back to Top
steve 101 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: February 07 2006
Location: New Zealand
Status: Offline
Points: 138
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote steve 101 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 12:20pm

good post Rick. Keepit up

 

Back to Top
AnnE View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: February 06 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 84
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AnnE Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 1:32pm
Rock on Rick!
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 2:14pm
Originally posted by Chicken Hawk Chicken Hawk wrote:

Did it say anywhere in the article that it was a
suspected bird flu case? I don't think so, so to me it wasn't relevant, sorry to
hear about the young girl, but unless these stories are somehow bird flu
related I don't see the point in posting them.



You get what you pay for, will there be fries with that sir?
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 2:16pm
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 2:23pm
The following information did not come through
traditional channels therefore, I can't provide a web link. I suspect many
of the individuals attending the current WHO meetings in Geneva will be
attending the following. I may have more real time information about the
following event once it takes place, I know one of the participants who
who hopes to attend the meeting March 8.9...


____________________________________________________________ _____


Invitation to Forum on Regulatory Preparedness for Pandemic Influenza
Vaccine

Brief Description:

Invitation to Forum on Regulatory Preparedness for Pandemic Influenza
Vaccine


"The Biologics and Genetic Therapies Directorate, HPFB is hosting the
first of two (invitation only) international worshops (March 9-11, 2006)
dedicated to regulatory preparedness for human pandemic influenza
vaccine.

The workshop will be attended by national regulatory authorities and
control laboratories of the key industrialized countries (Australia,
Canada, EU, Japan, and USA) as welll as countries considering influenza
vaccine production. Considering the Public Health Agency of Canada has
the lead for developing the Canadian Pandemic Influenza Plan, they will
also beactive participants of the workshop.

On March 8, you are invited to attend a BGTD hosted forum to provide
staff from Health Canada and the Public Health Agency of Canada insight
into international perspectives on the topic of regulatory preparedness as
itr elates to pandemic influenza vaccine. We are grateful to the five
international participants for their support and willingness to arrive
early, as this forum would otherwise not have been possible."

The forum will take place on March 8 (1-4 p.m.) in the Banting Theatre."


* If anyone can find a reference to it on the Internet let me know.
Sometimes you learn as much by what you don't find.
Back to Top
Tired View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 13 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 170
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tired Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 3:00pm
WOW!!! What a uproar posting a difference of opinion can make!!! Im kinda shocked!! I understand what everyone is saying, really I do. BUT my point is that it could get  really tiresome and repeatative assuming that all deaths here on out are somehow potentially related to BF. According to the CDC there are about 40,000 pnemonia deaths per year in the US. So, does this mean we need to go back and look at ALL of these deaths and check to see if any of these people who died of pnemonia last year traveled to BF infected area's?

Even though that it is obvious at this point that my opinion is not a popular one, I still am sticking to my original statement about this death not being necessarily BF.

I agree with Chicken Hawk! There is enough BF articles to sift through without adding in articles that as of now have nothing to do with BF.

Im probably going to get lynched for stating my opinion, but oh well!!



Better to be safe than sorry....
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 4:34pm
You know the really funny thing about posting this story was your map Rick.
Read the story again and you will have seen that the girl died in Barnet
General Hospital which is about 100 miles from the Isle of Wight in North
London. You assumed that Barnet was on the IoW and hence put that map
on it. Enthusiasm is applauded but it should be as accurate information as
possible.
Back to Top
Chicken Hawk View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chicken Hawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 7:33pm

 Tired, You can state your difference of opinion,  but you run the risk of someone making a childish, or snide remark about it when your opinion isn't popular.  You are right about all of the BF articles to sift thru, there are some great things to learn on here, but old news, irrelevant news, news that has been taken out of context is just too much. I wish there were a room where Facts Only were posted.

Harpmandoodle, you are right... enthusiasm is applauded... a lot of people contribute to this forum and accurate information is  very important.

Back to Top
mightymouse View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: January 27 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 487
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mightymouse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 7:42pm
If news is to be filtered - lets just outsource it all to China and let the Masters of Deceipt  do it.  I'd much rather let people use their judgement as to what is relevant and what isn't.  This way you get a broad balance.  'Just the Facts please' - Wasn't that the mantra of Joe Friday - Los Angelos Cop.  That is good if you have a specific goal to work towards.  Right now we have a cluster f#$k of info to sift through.  I want to be my own detective, thankyou very much.  Although, IMO, people should certainly use some descretion, be accurate, and use a link.  But if we err let it be on the side of free speech.
Nothing matters - Therefore everything matters
Back to Top
Corn View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: December 13 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1219
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:02pm

The biggest misconception that I keep hearing is that we're all gonna die.  Most will survive. It will just screw things up for awhile from the way they used to be. More people will probably die or be threatened by the changes in economics, the supply system and health care quality.

Other than that its just a nasty flu. when it does kill it seems to kill  mostly kids teenagers, 20 somethings and pregnant women.

The other bad aspect of the virus is that we will probably have to give up eating meat. Modern farming ,antibiotics, growth hormones, etc have probably helped propogate these diseases.

Something will have to give.

Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
Back to Top
Chicken Hawk View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chicken Hawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:05pm
Hey, it's nice to hear something semi-positive! Thanks Corn!
Back to Top
Chicken Hawk View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chicken Hawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:07pm
Before I get jumped for saying that, I meant the most will survive part! 
Back to Top
Corn View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member


Joined: December 13 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 1219
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:25pm

Corn said something semi positive?!? don't tell anybody.

If its coming It might as well come on and get it over with. I'm ready to move onto asteroids smahing into the earth, the ice caps melting, or seeing Albert naked in Broke Back Mountian 2.

Whew. Now that's a scarey thought.

Goodnight all. going to bed and when I wake up this will have all been a bad dream.

Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
Back to Top
Chicken Hawk View Drop Down
Valued Member
Valued Member
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2006
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 30
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Chicken Hawk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 8:40pm

I said the same thing today..not about Albert and Broke Back Mountain 2, but about if this is going to happen then hurry up and do what it's going to do so it can get over with and go away!!!! We do have other things to worry about, dang it! The ice caps are melting as we speak!

I wish this was all a bad dream.......

 

Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 07 2006 at 9:03pm
I wish I could respond to that Corn....... 
Back to Top
Guests View Drop Down
Guest Group
Guest Group
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: March 08 2006 at 3:54am
Originally posted by harpmandoodle harpmandoodle wrote:

You know the really funny thing about posting
this story was your map Rick.
Read the story again and you will have seen that the girl died in Barnet
General Hospital which is about 100 miles from the Isle of Wight in North
London. You assumed that Barnet was on the IoW and hence put that map
on it. Enthusiasm is applauded but it should be as accurate information
as
possible.


I assumed the girl was from the Isle of Wight, were she
started to feel ill before she departed for her trip to Spain. The Isle of
Wight is not far from Calais and reports of dead infected birds.


Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down