Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
UK:" PNEUMONIA" Kills 18-year old |
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Posted: March 07 2006 at 6:32am |
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PNEUMONIA CLAIMS LIFE OF POPULAR STUDENT
Isle of Wight (English Channel) - excerpt March 7/06 A POPULAR Sandown girl has died suddenly of double pneumonia just hours after returning with friends from a holiday in Spain. Sandown High A-level student Sarah Clatworthy, 18, died on Saturday morning at Barnet General Hospital after a four-day break to Barcelona to celebrate the 18th birthday of one of the group. Her mother Rosemarie, 51, had raced from her home to be at her daughter's side.Sarah's boyfriend, marine electrician Dan Muir, 18, also made the desperate journey in the early hours of Saturday but he arrived shortly after Sarah's death. This week as they struggled to come to terms with the tragedy, the close-knit family paid tribute to their 'princess'. Though Sarah began to feel poorly before leaving for Barcelona, she insisted on flying out to celebrate the 18th birthday of her long-standing friend Sarah Giddins.Though she enjoyed the early part of the trip, she became steadily more ill and sought treatment in Barcelona. Her condition became worse as she waited for hours at the airport for her flight home.Back in the UK, she continued to deteriorate and Sarah Giddins' parents called the emergency services from their Barnet home. She was rushed to hospital and her family and friends back home were informed. Mrs Clatworthy said: "When I got to the hospital I was in denial. I was asking doctors when she would be coming home. It never occurred to ask whether she was going to live or die. "The doctors said I should think about getting the rest of the family to the hospital and I remember thinking that sounded strange. A funeral service will be held at Christ Church, Sandown, at 11am on Tuesday followed by cremation at the IW Crematorium. http://www.iwcp.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx? SectionID=1252&ArticleID=1365844 http://www.typicallyspanish.com/news/publish/article_3029.sh tml |
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Rick, I will give you 1k if you can locate patient zero. And there are no hidden terms in fine print. In monthly payments over 10 years.
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virusil
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poor girl........
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ignorance.
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RainBow
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Are you suggesting that this may have been bird flu? Peopld do die of pneumonia. My brother's wife just died in January out in Vancouver from pneumonia 17 hours after getting to the hospital. She was sick for a couple of days as was my brother and their son. They got better she didn't. All of her organs shut down one at a time. This does happen and we should not jump the gun everytime someone is sick with respiratory illness.
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I don't know what the cause of her death was and nobody else does. Pneumonia is a symptom, not the underlying pathology or cause. When famous entertainers (Rock Hudson, Librace) died, the public was told death was from pneumonia, not HIV as later revealed. You can just as easily say that everyone that has ever died of Bird Flu, died from Pneumonia. H5N1 is the underlying pathology that causes pneumonia followed by death. I hope this makes sense. Nothing was said as to what caused the Pneumonia in an otherrwise healthy looking 18-year old, judging by a recent photo on the website. My son is 18-years. If this happened to him, I would not accept Pneumonia, I would want to know what the cause was, especially if acquired outside a hospital. Only a proper medical exam would reveal her true cause of death. Her cremation may be an impediment to revealing the cause. * I'm aware of hospital acquired infections and all of the issues around the subject. A Canadian hospital is the best place to acquire C. Difficile.This teen was not in a hospital before her trip. |
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RainBow
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Pneumonia is caused by virus or bacteria isn't it? I thought that the bacteria that causes pneumonia lives in the back of our throats at all times and during a period when your body is weak from a flu or cold, this bacteria will then move down the throat into your lungs where it grows and causes the complications of pneumonia. My brother knows a man in Vancouver who's 18 year old, healthy sports active son died from the same type of pneumonia as my sister-in-law. All that I am saying is that there are many times where pneumonia may cause death and it isn't always bird flu. |
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"Pneumonia is caused by virus or bacteria". Yes. The problem is that the doctors don't know if it was a virus or bacteria. Unless you have a laboratory analysis, then it's simply guessing. I agree "many times pneumonia may cause death". Pneumonia is a by-product. If you are unable to drive your car because you have a flat tire, it's because something caused the tire to go flat. A deflated tire (Pneumonia) is not the cause of the flat, its caused by something else. I'm sorry that healthy 18-year olds die of pneumnonia in Vancouver without the cause/ underlying patholgy being elucidated. For some unexplainable reason, the cause was not determined in this case either, if it was my son, I would want an answer. |
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AnnE
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Thanks, I thought I'd try the short answer first.
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AnnE
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Oops. Sorry if that was too detailed.
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No AnnE, your rock, I learned much from your post. Post on! |
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Tired
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Couldnt it just be that she died of pnemonia? It said that she
had been feeling ill prior to leaving, so she could have had the flu,
the normal flu. Both my husband and my youngest child have caught
pnemonia after a flu bug.
Although it's possible, we cant assume that EVERY death from here on out is somehow linked to a BF infection. |
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Better to be safe than sorry.... |
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RainBow
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Rick I do understand what you are saying about the 'flat tire' and pneumonia being a symptom caused by something else. I was just trying to point out that all cases of pneumonia are not caused from bird flu, and I do agree that the family should have that possibility ruled out.
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It's like saying someone died of lead posioning, from a 38 calibre bullet. Sure you can call it lead poisoning, or pneumonia. I would prefer to know what caused the "lead poisoning". I do not assume to know the cause of death and neither does anyone here. We are simply looking for answers by pooling our collective resources and examining information from all angles. Being uninformed will not make the reason why you are reading this go away. The medical profession has an interesting term called an Iatrogenic illness. "What does the word "iatrogenic" mean? Iatros means physician in Greek, and -genic, meaning induced by, is derived from the International Scientific Vocabulary. Combined, of course, they become iatrogenic, meaning physician-induced. Iatrogenic disease is obviously, then, disease which is caused by a physician." It's sounds a lot better than we made a mistake. It does not matter what you call, the results are the same. My 2-cents. |
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cosmicpixie
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I'm not sure why you posted that story as it doesn't link to bird flu in any realistic way really-the girl is from the UK,we haven't even had a case of flu in poultry confirmed yet,and the article states she felt ill even before going to Spain.By posting stuff like this,I can't help but feel a bit annoyed as it's as if any story whatsoever about some poor person dying of anything remotely flu related is all of a sudden treated as suspicious and worthy of discussion.I don't think this story really does,does it?? |
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Tired
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Rick, My point was that we cant assume that every death here on out is going to be related to BF somehow. Im just trying to keep a level head during all of this. I just cant understand why when someone dies it is automatically lumped in with BF. People die of pnemonia ALL the time. Im just saying that it is going to get really tiresome assuming that from now on all pnemonia deaths are associated with BF. Of course, this is JMO. |
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Better to be safe than sorry.... |
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The truth is the first casualty of any war. I'm simply looking for the causalties. Death is easy, living can be tiresome. |
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Tired
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Rick,
When you say the "truth is the first casualty for war" makes me think that you suspect that she died of BF and that someone is covering that up. True, this is not impossible, but it is unlikely. People die of pneomina, and people die of the flu...ALL the time!! This has happened for YEARS...way before H5N1 was even in our vocabulary!!! |
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Better to be safe than sorry.... |
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Tansau
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Personally, I like to see the "big picture." Whether it is confirmed, suspected,
related, symptomatically similar, or officially "ABBF", I prefer to hear about the reported illnesses so that we can review and draw independant conclusions. As long as everyone recognizes that this is "raw data" and is not neccessarily Bird Flu just because it is posted in a Bird Flu forum, there shouldn't be a problem. Keep up the good work, Rick. Your efforts are much appreciated. My $.02, anyway. |
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Falcon
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true that a lot of people die from it, my grandfather died all those years ago from it.
But the fact she was in spain and spain is not too far from some hot zones does make me kind off eerie, didn't anyone look at the map? its two continents over from switzerland |
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AnnE
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All good points. Consider how she got to and from Spain. On an airplane. Who was she on the plane with? Where were they from and were any of them infected? Who knows. All speculation at this point. All good questions, but that's all. Speculations and questions. As long as we're clear.
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RainBow
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Rick's efforts ARE much appreciated!
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Good post Rick, I would have posted it too. After all she was a healthy 18 year. Who knows what got her. So we can't rule her out either as a BF. All in all very sad. |
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The purpose of the entire Forum is informed speculation, in one form or another so that we can move towards the truth. The truth is the only thing that will ultimately help all of us. It is the only way I know how. It's unimportant what, I think. This is an information pot-luck, everyone brings something to the table, so if you don't like cabbage rolls, don't eat them, but I will :-) |
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Corn
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If we waited for confirmed bird flu news to post we wouldn't have any news. And the news we would have would be weeks, months out of date. It only takes 30 days estimated for a bug , any bug to circle the world. I want any data that I can draw from. little pieces of the puzzle that make up the big picture. Post don't have to say bird flu related to be put up. Give me all you've got. May belief is that it is H2H and will be here, there and everywhere in about a week or so from now. Call it hoof and mouth. call it BSE, call it menegitis, call it mysterious fever, call it stop breathing desiease. It is here on the planet and it is comming to a theater near you. Cut the denial. Watch the unobvious and be ready in an instant to do whatevr it is you plan. A week or so from now. no longer. and if I'm wrong you can laugh me off this forum. Read the news. put the puzzle together. the puzzle is saying.........A week or so from now. no longer. and that's my two cents. |
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Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
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My 2 cents......... I would rather we have more information than not enough. I also like the broad picture. There is some indication that during 1918 and the lead-up there were other diseases that struck with uncharacteristic severity. But who knows if those other illnesses weren't ABBF too...of course they didn't know about AI back then... but I think you know what I'm getting at. So as far as I'm concerned the more the merrier... let me decide what's relevant and what's not. SZ |
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drpepper
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im with you corn, they can laugh at both of us
every day the news is getting clearer and clearer, pieces of the puzzle falling in and it doesnt take a scientist to read between all these lines. bird flu is everywhere. the virus lives to kill, thats its only job. its systematically mutating to destroy virtually every living thing in its path. are we so arrogant as to think it wont be us? our governments and our scientists cant make it all better for us. responsibility is on each of us. time for denial is over. our time of "life as normal" is over already........ the s%*# is hitting the proverbial fan with gross velocity. a week or 2.......im calling it the 2 week wait........anyone in? |
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Chicken Hawk
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Did it say anywhere in the article that it was a suspected bird flu case? I don't think so, so to me it wasn't relevant, sorry to hear about the young girl, but unless these stories are somehow bird flu related I don't see the point in posting them. |
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I would rather have my head up and into the wind, when this storm hits. I think we have a while yet. I will be looking at Who to see what they have to say, after this meetings, that are ongoing this week. Hopefully some leadership!! IMO only, Corn you may be very right, and I am in the sand again. |
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steve 101
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good post Rick. Keepit up
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AnnE
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Rock on Rick!
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You get what you pay for, will there be fries with that sir? |
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The following information did not come through
traditional channels therefore, I can't provide a web link. I suspect many of the individuals attending the current WHO meetings in Geneva will be attending the following. I may have more real time information about the following event once it takes place, I know one of the participants who who hopes to attend the meeting March 8.9... ____________________________________________________________ _____ Invitation to Forum on Regulatory Preparedness for Pandemic Influenza Vaccine Brief Description: Invitation to Forum on Regulatory Preparedness for Pandemic Influenza Vaccine "The Biologics and Genetic Therapies Directorate, HPFB is hosting the first of two (invitation only) international worshops (March 9-11, 2006) dedicated to regulatory preparedness for human pandemic influenza vaccine. The workshop will be attended by national regulatory authorities and control laboratories of the key industrialized countries (Australia, Canada, EU, Japan, and USA) as welll as countries considering influenza vaccine production. Considering the Public Health Agency of Canada has the lead for developing the Canadian Pandemic Influenza Plan, they will also beactive participants of the workshop. On March 8, you are invited to attend a BGTD hosted forum to provide staff from Health Canada and the Public Health Agency of Canada insight into international perspectives on the topic of regulatory preparedness as itr elates to pandemic influenza vaccine. We are grateful to the five international participants for their support and willingness to arrive early, as this forum would otherwise not have been possible." The forum will take place on March 8 (1-4 p.m.) in the Banting Theatre." * If anyone can find a reference to it on the Internet let me know. Sometimes you learn as much by what you don't find. |
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Tired
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WOW!!! What a uproar posting a difference of opinion can make!!! Im
kinda shocked!! I understand what everyone is saying, really I do. BUT
my point is that it could get really tiresome and repeatative
assuming that all deaths here on out are somehow potentially related to
BF. According to the CDC there are about 40,000 pnemonia deaths per
year in the US. So, does this mean we need to go back and look at ALL
of these deaths and check to see if any of these people who died of
pnemonia last year traveled to BF infected area's?
Even though that it is obvious at this point that my opinion is not a popular one, I still am sticking to my original statement about this death not being necessarily BF. I agree with Chicken Hawk! There is enough BF articles to sift through without adding in articles that as of now have nothing to do with BF. Im probably going to get lynched for stating my opinion, but oh well!! |
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Better to be safe than sorry.... |
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You know the really funny thing about posting this story was your map Rick.
Read the story again and you will have seen that the girl died in Barnet General Hospital which is about 100 miles from the Isle of Wight in North London. You assumed that Barnet was on the IoW and hence put that map on it. Enthusiasm is applauded but it should be as accurate information as possible. |
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Chicken Hawk
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Tired, You can state your difference of opinion, but you run the risk of someone making a childish, or snide remark about it when your opinion isn't popular. You are right about all of the BF articles to sift thru, there are some great things to learn on here, but old news, irrelevant news, news that has been taken out of context is just too much. I wish there were a room where Facts Only were posted. Harpmandoodle, you are right... enthusiasm is applauded... a lot of people contribute to this forum and accurate information is very important. |
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mightymouse
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If news is to be filtered - lets just outsource it all to China and let the Masters of Deceipt do it. I'd much rather let people use their judgement as to what is relevant and what isn't. This way you get a broad balance. 'Just the Facts please' - Wasn't that the mantra of Joe Friday - Los Angelos Cop. That is good if you have a specific goal to work towards. Right now we have a cluster f#$k of info to sift through. I want to be my own detective, thankyou very much. Although, IMO, people should certainly use some descretion, be accurate, and use a link. But if we err let it be on the side of free speech.
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Nothing matters - Therefore everything matters
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Corn
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The biggest misconception that I keep hearing is that we're all gonna die. Most will survive. It will just screw things up for awhile from the way they used to be. More people will probably die or be threatened by the changes in economics, the supply system and health care quality. Other than that its just a nasty flu. when it does kill it seems to kill mostly kids teenagers, 20 somethings and pregnant women. The other bad aspect of the virus is that we will probably have to give up eating meat. Modern farming ,antibiotics, growth hormones, etc have probably helped propogate these diseases. Something will have to give. |
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Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
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Chicken Hawk
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Hey, it's nice to hear something semi-positive! Thanks Corn!
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Chicken Hawk
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Before I get jumped for saying that, I meant the most will survive part!
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Corn
Valued Member Joined: December 13 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 1219 |
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Corn said something semi positive?!? don't tell anybody. If its coming It might as well come on and get it over with. I'm ready to move onto asteroids smahing into the earth, the ice caps melting, or seeing Albert naked in Broke Back Mountian 2. Whew. Now that's a scarey thought. Goodnight all. going to bed and when I wake up this will have all been a bad dream. |
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Speculation is the only tool we have with a threat that can circle the globe in 30 days. Test results&news is slow.Factor in human conditions,politics, money&bingo!The truth!Facts come after the fact.
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Chicken Hawk
Valued Member Joined: January 16 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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I said the same thing today..not about Albert and Broke Back Mountain 2, but about if this is going to happen then hurry up and do what it's going to do so it can get over with and go away!!!! We do have other things to worry about, dang it! The ice caps are melting as we speak! I wish this was all a bad dream.......
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I wish I could respond to that Corn.......
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I assumed the girl was from the Isle of Wight, were she started to feel ill before she departed for her trip to Spain. The Isle of Wight is not far from Calais and reports of dead infected birds. |
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