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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Ultimate mortality number?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 2:00pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Despite his unnecessarily rude expression, Carbon is right.  

I too would never visit the violent, money grabbing USA.  I will never get as many chances to get rich over here, we have fewer opportunities and higher taxes.  But prefer it more than I could express in words.  Just reading the posts here horrifies me.  Open carry - because you only feel safe if you do?  Muggings for food? Americans over here begging good samaritans not to call an ambulance - because they can't believe there is no charge for saving their lives? AND THIS IS NORMAL???  My daughter came in crying a couple of months ago, because an American friend could not get surgery for a brain tumour which would eventually kill her.    

If forced to move I would chose Cuba before the US

Well the UK isn't the US there are differences some minor, some major and that is why every country is sovereign and unique. And no one in the US is turned away from emergency medical treatment under the EMTLA law. It's kind of amusing that you believe so many stereotypes and generalizations about the US and it's citizenry. As for Carbon's form of expression being rude I just consider the source, I'm sure he's doing the best he can given his obvious limitations.

Oh and by the way another area the wicked old wild west full of lunatics US of A leads the world is in humanitarian assistance.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 2:06pm

Not all necessary treatment counts as emergency.

My daughter's friend's tale is far from unique.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 2:15pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I am neither American, nor Australian, but Australia does not seem to have bigger economic problems than America*, neither is it heavily socialist.   You make it sound like North Korea, yet the USA is more like them than Australia - their leaders are "great pals" too.

New Zealand has a socialist government at the moment.  It is doing better than either.  The UK has a right-wing covernment and one of the worst covid19 problems in the world.

Frankly, being left or right is immaterial to a non political virus.  We are doing worse, because the government made mistakes at the beginning.  Being right-wing was not what made us worse.

Having a system that cares for the people, the truth and the science makes all the difference.

Again, Carbon could have put things a bit more politely.




*Under current problems, which are wrecking economies across the globe, it seems to be doing rather better.

AU right before COVID19

https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/-global-recovery-skips-australia-as-economy-suffers-coalitions-incompetence-,13531

AU after COVID19

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/worst-since-1932-two-million-aussies-face-unemployment-queue-20200323-p54d14.html

SEEMS being the operative world there, but then it's relative to how it was doing before COVID19, which didn't look very hot at all. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 2:16pm

That depends on your viewpoint:

Overall the US gives just under 32 billion in foreign aid and the UK just under 19 billion.  But before you slap yourself on the back for that.  The us gives $95.5 per capita and the UK $284.8.  Considering we are a poorer country, you have nothing to boast of there.  Sweden manages a staggering $700 per capita and Australia beats the USA at $129.9 per head- considerably more than the American average.

You, yourself once pointed out to me that the USA was a collection of countries.  They only look so good because of weight of numbers, AI

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 2:18pm

Oh!  'And charity begins at home.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 2:21pm

Unemployment queues are nasty, but those on them are housed, fed, clothed and given medical aid - not just for emergencies either.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 2:29pm

😆


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 2:43pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Not matter how you try to do your chump thing and try and  change the narrative, Chump is still responsible for 90,000 (still on the UP)American lives ,

90,000 +++DEAD

AMERICANS,

 Just FAKE NEWS!!!!!

More going to die....thats OK they got their body bags ready....

Oh by the way did you see how poor Vietnam is doing.....

Mind they started closing down when we did in January.....

Pity your country is led  by an Orange faced CLOWN......


Actually I didn't change the narrative, you did or at least tried to and that's the best you could do? It begs the question does being that stupid hurt? And a secondary question of do you have to try at it or does it come naturally to you? I'm betting the latter, you'r very good at it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 3:17pm

90000 Americans dead...... 

That could have been avoided,

That's a fact....

Thing is,I have a very busy life,

I pop on here ,wind you up, 

I have no beef whatsoever with the American people,

Not long ago during our Bush fires a firefighter told our PM to F...k off,that being a true Aussie

Just because chump is your leader dosnt mean he or anyone else is above critiqued

You may not like that, but he and your administration have handled this Pandemic very badley.





Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 3:22pm

Have a really nice day, I'm off to work now.....😁

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 4:42pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Have a really nice day, I'm off to work now.....😁

Your trolling efforts could use some help, minimal effectiveness. But it's funny Trump lives in your head LOL. You have a excellent day at work, mine is just rapping up. Be safe, wash your hands and drink some water.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Flubergasted Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 4:55pm

I don't care much for Trump, but I'm going to stop short of blaming him for 90,000 deaths.  Initially closing the borders was a great move.  His failure to follow that with real preparation over the next month or so did cost lives, but it is hard to say how many.  People also made stupid decisions independent of Trump from their own motivations.  We disregard science at our own peril, no matter what our leaders say.  

We were shaking our heads at the CDC, WHO, Trump, and many other leaders in this very forum during that time, and making our own moves to protect our families.  We informed ourselves as best we could and didn't take their word for it.  

 When he brought home our citizens from the Diamond Princess, I was cheering him on, hoping I had been mistaken in my dislike of his leadership.  He lead the way on that, and other countries began repatriating their own.  

 People were always going to die.  Some of those deaths are likely down to his administration, but not all.    From spring breakers convinced of their immortality to pastors who lacked the sense to seek God's wisdom and pridefully jeopardized their congregations, to dishwasher manufacturers who declared themselves essential and compelled their workers to keep building things nobody is buying right now, a lot of deaths happened that cannot be laid at Trump's feet.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 7:15pm

I live in the US and work in healthcare. Stabilizing someone at an ER and then sending them on their way is a far cry from universal healthcare. It’s not even close.



"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 10:50pm

Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

I live in the US and work in healthcare. Stabilizing someone at an ER and then sending them on their way is a far cry from universal healthcare. It’s not even close.



Didn't say it was.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 1:32am

So why mention it?

"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 2:33am

Rather than just focusing on the total number in each country, to give better comparisons it is best to use deaths per population (either million or 100.000 - the latter seems to be more used with medical sites, but I have got into the habit of using deaths per million).

By this metric, USA is no where near being the world leader   - A spot held by Belgium (probably because Belgium includes "suspected" cases whereas other countries do not).

In a table of larger countries (I have excluded small island nations etc because their small populations can throw a natural variation into showing some high figures) USA comes 9th after Belgium (787), Spain (587), Italy (529), UK (521), France (433), Sweden (357), the Netherlands (328), and Ireland (314).    USA (269) has a way to go before they over take Ireland, but I think the UK will soon overtake Italy to be in Bronze position.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 3:13am

Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does.

With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.  

If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more.

In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 5:09am

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

[QUOTE=Technophobe]

Oh and by the way another area the wicked old wild west full of lunatics US of A leads the world is in humanitarian assistance.

Only because our GNP is higher.  There are countries (actually most countries) that devote much higher percentages of their GNP to humanitarian efforts.  The UK, Germany, Japan and Sweden all devote a higher percentage of their GNP to humanitarian relief.  So the US may devote more dollars, but far less of our GNP compared to other first world countries so the per capita outlay is far lower.   But instead, trillions are handed out as Corporate Welfare every day.  Every damn day. The U.S. provides corporations with those nifty P&Ls that bolster the lagging indicator of DJIA or NASDAQ while the vast majority of Americans worry about how to pay the bills.

It's all on how to cook the books to make the numbers say what you want them to say.  Sort of like reclassifying Covid deaths and Covid related deaths to push the numbers down.  Swallow, rinse and regurgitate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 7:19am

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does.

With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.  

If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more.

In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths.

I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.  

I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response

We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.  

I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 7:57am

There are still a few who would have caught it and died even without a lack of leadership.  Even New Zealand had a death. 

I confess, the toll is MASSIVELY higher than it could have been and the current policies and (I don't know what to call it; it's not leadership) caused that.  I still can't put a precise figure on it - perhaps 'orders of magnitude' rather than 'percentage increase', but still nothing precise.  AND I LIKE PRECISE!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 12:33pm

But how high would New Zealand's numbers have been if their government had done little to nothing as the U.S. government?

I'm afraid you're not going to get precise here.  Not for years yet.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 3:07pm

Unfortunately I do believe the Chump administration is responsible,

When you look at

My Son in Laws country,

Sri Lanka,a non allied ,not part of the 5 eyes intelligence organisation,

Who closed down, and have kept their numbers way down, 

What does that say about a county with the Most sophisticated intelligence ,in the World,

It Says to me that country,

Is not at Smart or sophisticated as they think, 

or their leadership Didn't Listen........

Then again 

Sri Lanka has a literacy rate of 97%

Very clever people,

very poor but very Smart.....

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 6:32pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

There are still a few who would have caught it and died even without a lack of leadership.  Even New Zealand had a death. 

I confess, the toll is MASSIVELY higher than it could have been and the current policies and (I don't know what to call it; it's not leadership) caused that.  I still can't put a precise figure on it - perhaps 'orders of magnitude' rather than 'percentage increase', but still nothing precise.  AND I LIKE PRECISE!

You are getting precise information, Techno.  My original calculation of 2 M US deaths was based upon what we knew at the time (January 2020) of case fatality rate as reported from China, along with rough estimates of transmission rates in the general population.  I came up with 2.0 M and the Brits came up with 2.2 M.  

https://www.hpnonline.com/infection-prevention/screening-surveillance/article/21130206/covid19-predicted-to-infect-81-of-us-population-cause-22-million-deaths-in-us

I now say "1 M" because little is being done to prevent further cases.  We have more people immune from either surviving hospitalization or enduring infection without serious consequences (Prince Charles), so that reduces the pool of vulnerable patients.  Also, once you die, you are not part of the equation anymore.  

I don't know about the UK, where I once lived and have many friends, but it doesn't sound like you guys are doing all that well.  In the USA, all the damn rednecks want their saloons and hair salons open again, so we will have a nice surge of cases.  This is already happening in good old Texas, and states like Wisconsin, Iowa and others shall follow. 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/texas/article/Massive-jump-in-Texas-COVID-19-cases-15275484.php

Texas reported 1,801 new COVID-19 cases on Saturday — the biggest single-day jump in cases since the pandemic began.

A growing outbreak in the Texas Panhandle is a big reason for the surge in cases. More than 700 new cases were reported out of Amarillo on Saturday with Texas Gov. Greg Abbott warning those numbers will continue to climb as the state increases testing in that hot spot.  

(This is the new Republican lie - that cases are going up because we are testing more.  The increases in mortality blow a HUGE hole in that lie.  I'm just sitting back and watching, continuing to isolate at home and monitoring the Internet chatter.  Be safe and well, Charles)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 6:46pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does.

With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.  

If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more.

In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths.

I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.  

I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response

We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.  

I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.  

 Well this guy was the senior director of that aspect of the NSC and he directly refutes what you claim in regard to the NSC. His credentials are far better than yours and I believe him over you and Vanityfair.

And he's smart enough to know and state the following.

It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe.

We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 7:01pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does.

With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.  

If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more.

In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths.

I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.  

I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response

We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.  

I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.  

 Well this guy was the senior director of that aspect of the NSC and he directly refutes what you claim in regard to the NSC. His credentials are far better than yours and I believe him over you and Vanityfair.

And he's smart enough to know and state the following.

It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe.

We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Bah.  The article you cite says this: 

It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. 

But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. (I think we are seeing the price we are now paying for clearing out this "bloat" of career scientists and intelligence specialists = nearly 100,000 dead in the US and counting.  CRS, DrPH)

Defense Secretary Robert Gatescongressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity). (FYI, I am personal friends with the Axelrods, they don't agree with this statement.  "Too large" is subjective, Trump didn't see the value of having preparedness people on staff.  Now, maybe, he knows.)

As The Post reported in 2015, from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff “had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.” That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.(The NSC staff had grown because of the global Swine Flu pandemic in 2009; massive Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014; and various threats of bioterrorism from the Islamic State and other actors.  I was working on all of these with the FBI and DHS.  Trump didn't show any interest in the briefings given by the Obama administration).  

You are incorrect.  CRS, DrPH

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 7:07pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does.

With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.  

If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more.

In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths.

I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.  

I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response

We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.  

I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.  

 Well this guy was the senior director of that aspect of the NSC and he directly refutes what you claim in regard to the NSC. His credentials are far better than yours and I believe him over you and Vanityfair.

And he's smart enough to know and state the following.

It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe.

We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Bah.  The article you cite says this: 

It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. 

But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. (I think we are seeing the price we are now paying for clearing out this "bloat" of career scientists and intelligence specialists = nearly 100,000 dead in the US and counting.  CRS, DrPH)

Defense Secretary Robert Gatescongressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity). (FYI, I am personal friends with David and Susan Axelrod, they don't agree with this statement.  "Too large" is subjective, Trump didn't see the value of having preparedness people on staff.)

As The Post reported in 2015, from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff “had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.” That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.(The NSC staff had grown because of the global Swine Flu pandemic in 2009; massive Ebola outbreak in West Africa, 2014; and various threats of bioterrorism from the Islamic State and other actors.  Trump didn't show any interest in the briefings given by the Obama administration).  You are incorrect.  CRS, DrPH

No you'r saying someone who actually held the position on the NSC is wrong and who would be more in the know than you and who's credentials eclipse your's by a far ways. That's who you are saying is wrong the author of that article, not me. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 7:15pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does.

With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.  

If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more.

In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths.

I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.  

I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response

We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.  

I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.  

 Well this guy was the senior director of that aspect of the NSC and he directly refutes what you claim in regard to the NSC. His credentials are far better than yours and I believe him over you and Vanityfair.

And he's smart enough to know and state the following.

It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe.

We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Bah.  The article you cite says this: 

It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. 

But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. (I think we are seeing the price we are now paying for clearing out this "bloat" of career scientists and intelligence specialists = nearly 100,000 dead in the US and counting.  CRS, DrPH)

Defense Secretary Robert Gatescongressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity). (FYI, I am personal friends with David and Susan Axelrod, they don't agree with this statement.  "Too large" is subjective, Trump didn't see the value of having preparedness people on staff.)

As The Post reported in 2015, from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff “had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.” That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.(The NSC staff had grown because of the global Swine Flu pandemic in 2009; massive Ebola outbreak in West Africa, 2014; and various threats of bioterrorism from the Islamic State and other actors.  Trump didn't show any interest in the briefings given by the Obama administration).  You are incorrect.  CRS, DrPH

No you'r saying someone who actually held the position on the NSC is wrong and who would be more in the know than you and who's credentials eclipse your's by a far ways. That's who you are saying is wrong the author of that article, not me. 

I don't know who that jerk is, and everyone in DC has their own agenda.  I do work with the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate and know more than you do.  Just judge the results - Trump Administration downplayed the Obama Administration's warnings for pandemics and did typical corporate downsizing stuff.  "We don't know what these people do, so get rid of them."  Result?  Approaching 100,000 preventable casualties.  

I'm not impressed, Trump should be impeached for negligent manslaughter.  

This is my friend Dave:  https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1255985213647265795

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 7:49pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does.

With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.  

If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more.

In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths.

I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.  

I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response

We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.  

I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.  

 Well this guy was the senior director of that aspect of the NSC and he directly refutes what you claim in regard to the NSC. His credentials are far better than yours and I believe him over you and Vanityfair.

And he's smart enough to know and state the following.

It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe.

We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Bah.  The article you cite says this: 

It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. 

But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. (I think we are seeing the price we are now paying for clearing out this "bloat" of career scientists and intelligence specialists = nearly 100,000 dead in the US and counting.  CRS, DrPH)

Defense Secretary Robert Gatescongressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity). (FYI, I am personal friends with David and Susan Axelrod, they don't agree with this statement.  "Too large" is subjective, Trump didn't see the value of having preparedness people on staff.)

As The Post reported in 2015, from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff “had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.” That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.(The NSC staff had grown because of the global Swine Flu pandemic in 2009; massive Ebola outbreak in West Africa, 2014; and various threats of bioterrorism from the Islamic State and other actors.  Trump didn't show any interest in the briefings given by the Obama administration).  You are incorrect.  CRS, DrPH

No you'r saying someone who actually held the position on the NSC is wrong and who would be more in the know than you and who's credentials eclipse your's by a far ways. That's who you are saying is wrong the author of that article, not me. 

I don't know who that jerk is, and everyone in DC has their own agenda.  I do work with the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate and know more than you do.  Just judge the results - Trump Administration downplayed the Obama Administration's warnings for pandemics and did typical corporate downsizing stuff.  "We don't know what these people do, so get rid of them."  Result?  Approaching 100,000 preventable casualties.  

I'm not impressed, Trump should be impeached for negligent manslaughter.  

This is my friend Dave:  https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1255985213647265795

LOL again it's not about me, I didn't write the article. But again he was several, well more than several levels above you and actually a senior director on the NSC. So his direct knowledge of what is needed and required would of course be based on actual working experience at that level. 

This is my friend Bob https://twitter.com/SpongeBob

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 8:10pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

Carbon is exaggerating to make a point (I believe).  Trump is in no way responsible for all those deaths, past or future.  But the policies of his administration ARE responsible for some increase.  I don't know exactly how many - no one does.

With the exception of Joscinda Ardern, I don't think there is a political leader without responsibility for some.  This was never going to have been an easy bug to battle.  But most politicians listen to their critics, it helps them learn.  For instance, our Prime Minister, Boris, started out on a DISASTEROUS course.  He changed tack (rather too late) when a group of scientists lobbied him.  

If Trump hears a critic, he goes ballistic!  He fires them, walks out, refuses to talk, cuts funds and even threatens war - whatever option he has for each one.  When covid 19 first appeared, no one knew anything about it.  Trump is learning slower than most, (because his ego is so fragile - I presume) and that is costing extra lives.  It will cost more.

In his defence, America is an unusual case.  The monetarist, law-of-the-jungle system and lack of healthcare, coupled with the national obsession with imagined freedoms, don't make this case an easy one to treat.  But he does bear a proportion of the blame for a proportion of the cases and therefore a proportion of the deaths.

I would argue that Pres. Trump DOES bear direct responsibility for these deaths, in the US and globally.  

I work in professional public health, and have extensive training in pandemic science (in PH, we have largely been focused on H5N1 bird flu, which is not the priority I was advocating).  Under Pres. Obama, we had two "pandemic" situations - H1N1 swine flu in 2009, which was a true pandemic, and a large-scale Ebola outbreak in West Africa in 2014, which threatened to become a pandemic.  The US had a robust pandemic response team in the National Security Council and throughout government, but Pres. Trump though it was all a waste of money and dismantled much of it just before COVID-19 exploded. 

https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2020/05/trump-obama-coronavirus-pandemic-response

We should have kept our pandemic epidemiologist boots on the ground in China, but Trump brought nearly all of them home.  AFT members were discussing the Wuhan outbreak before many in government addressed it, and this is criminal.  

I would like to see Trump impeached and tried for negligent homicide.  

 Well this guy was the senior director of that aspect of the NSC and he directly refutes what you claim in regard to the NSC. His credentials are far better than yours and I believe him over you and Vanityfair.

And he's smart enough to know and state the following.

It matters because when people play politics in the middle of a crisis, we are all less safe.

We are less safe because public servants are distracted when they are dragged into politics.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/16/no-white-house-didnt-dissolve-its-pandemic-response-office/

Bah.  The article you cite says this: 

It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. 

But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. (I think we are seeing the price we are now paying for clearing out this "bloat" of career scientists and intelligence specialists = nearly 100,000 dead in the US and counting.  CRS, DrPH)

Defense Secretary Robert Gatescongressional oversight committees and members of the Obama administration itself all agreed the NSC was too large and too operationally focused (a departure from its traditional role coordinating executive branch activity). (FYI, I am personal friends with David and Susan Axelrod, they don't agree with this statement.  "Too large" is subjective, Trump didn't see the value of having preparedness people on staff.)

As The Post reported in 2015, from the Clinton administration to the Obama administration’s second term, the NSC’s staff “had quadrupled in size, to nearly 400 people.” That is why Trump began streamlining the NSC staff in 2017.(The NSC staff had grown because of the global Swine Flu pandemic in 2009; massive Ebola outbreak in West Africa, 2014; and various threats of bioterrorism from the Islamic State and other actors.  Trump didn't show any interest in the briefings given by the Obama administration).  You are incorrect.  CRS, DrPH

No you'r saying someone who actually held the position on the NSC is wrong and who would be more in the know than you and who's credentials eclipse your's by a far ways. That's who you are saying is wrong the author of that article, not me. 

I don't know who that jerk is, and everyone in DC has their own agenda.  I do work with the FBI Weapons of Mass Destruction Directorate and know more than you do.  Just judge the results - Trump Administration downplayed the Obama Administration's warnings for pandemics and did typical corporate downsizing stuff.  "We don't know what these people do, so get rid of them."  Result?  Approaching 100,000 preventable casualties.  

I'm not impressed, Trump should be impeached for negligent manslaughter.  

This is my friend Dave:  https://twitter.com/davidaxelrod/status/1255985213647265795

LOL again it's not about me, I didn't write the article. But again he was several, well more than several levels above you and actually a senior director on the NSC. So his direct knowledge of what is needed and required would of course be based on actual working experience at that level. 

This is my friend Bob https://twitter.com/SpongeBob

This is one of my credentials, please share yours.  This was managed by the FBI WMD Directorate.  

The NSC guy is in the Trump tank.  Trump is the boss of the NSC and he screwed up remarkably.  What may have looked like a good idea in 2016 is a disaster in 2020.  Everyone in DC has an opinion & is in a position to grab a job/write a book.  I don't know this guy, never heard of him, and Trump owns every death in the USA. 

p.s. say hi to Spongebob for me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 8:44pm

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 9:10pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 

I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.  

The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.   

Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.[10]

Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 9:49pm

Yep Obama gave Billions to Iran...good Job Obama!  IN CASH No Less!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 10:22pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 

Dr. Holdren is a colleague of mine.   I was particularly involved in the Deepwater Horizon Oil Disaster, when the soon-to-be-dead Rush Limbaugh said that the US Government were sending "SWAT" teams to the gulf (we were sending SWOT teams, = Strengths/Weaknesses/Opportunities/Threats).

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2010/05/sabotage-conspiracy-and-other-ways-to-spin-the-oil-spill/56347/


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 10:39pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 

I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.  

The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.   

Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.[10]

Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats. 

Curious how did Obama fend off two pandemics without the NSC pandemic unit? It wasn't formed until the final months of his presidency, 7 years after H1N1 started and 2 years after the Ebola epidemic. And you do remember who was Obama's Ebola czar right? Robert Klain another JD 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 11:05pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 

I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.  

The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.   

Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.[10]

Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats. 

Curious how did Obama fend off two pandemics without the NSC pandemic unit? It wasn't formed until the final months of his presidency, 7 years after H1N1 started and 2 years after the Ebola epidemic. And you do remember who was Obama's Ebola czar right? Robert Klain another JD 

Not an Obama fan, huh?  

We were extremely busy back then, dealing with ISIL (rookies like you call them ISIS), cyberthreats from Russia (remember them?) and China, restive N. Korea etc.  Syria was using poison gas on its rebels, Obama should have nuked Assad in his palace.  He didn't because of Russian bluster. 

I don't know Klain, but he was very experienced in political realms and seems to have been competent enough, unlike anyone in Trump's sphere (Fauci excluded). 

CRS, DrPH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 19 2020 at 11:30pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 

I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.  

The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.   

Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.[10]

Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats. 

Curious how did Obama fend off two pandemics without the NSC pandemic unit? It wasn't formed until the final months of his presidency, 7 years after H1N1 started and 2 years after the Ebola epidemic. And you do remember who was Obama's Ebola czar right? Robert Klain another JD 

Not an Obama fan, huh?  

We were extremely busy back then, dealing with ISIL (rookies like you call them ISIS), cyberthreats from Russia (remember them?) and China, restive N. Korea etc.  Syria was using poison gas on its rebels, Obama should have nuked Assad in his palace.  He didn't because of Russian bluster. 

I don't know Klain, but he was very experienced in political realms and seems to have been competent enough, unlike anyone in Trump's sphere (Fauci excluded). 

So one JD appointed to a position by Trump is bad and one JD appointed to a position by Obama is good when the common denominators are both dealt with potential pandemics and both were JD's not MD's. Your political bias is astounding, especially given your previous post about JD politicians without medical/science degrees. And you didn't answer the question you danced and deflected all the way around it with irrelevant information.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 3:26am

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 

I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.  

The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.   

Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.[10]

Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats. 

Curious how did Obama fend off two pandemics without the NSC pandemic unit? It wasn't formed until the final months of his presidency, 7 years after H1N1 started and 2 years after the Ebola epidemic. And you do remember who was Obama's Ebola czar right? Robert Klain another JD 

Not an Obama fan, huh?  

We were extremely busy back then, dealing with ISIL (rookies like you call them ISIS), cyberthreats from Russia (remember them?) and China, restive N. Korea etc.  Syria was using poison gas on its rebels, Obama should have nuked Assad in his palace.  He didn't because of Russian bluster. 

I don't know Klain, but he was very experienced in political realms and seems to have been competent enough, unlike anyone in Trump's sphere (Fauci excluded). 

So one JD appointed to a position by Trump is bad and one JD appointed to a position by Obama is good when the common denominators are both dealt with potential pandemics and both were JD's not MD's. Your political bias is astounding, especially given your previous post about JD politicians without medical/science degrees. And you didn't answer the question you danced and deflected all the way around it with irrelevant information.

Obama's JD, Ron Klain was an accomplished political manager who was Chief of Staff for Vice Presidents Al Gore and Joe Biden.   Your guy Morrison is a political hack who now sucks the teat at the neocon Hudson Institute in DC. 

Obama's response to pandemics was much more effective than Trump's, who has killed more Americans than the Viet Nam war....and counting.  Try again.  Get a new name, AI is only half right.

CRS, DrPH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 7:41am

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 


AI, I say this with no malice or wish to denigrate your opinion.  However, reading CRS's posts has allowed me to put a few things together.  If CRS's credentials go as "high" as I suspect, he's one of the dudes that helps writes the policy that directors follow.  That's not to say CRS should confirm or deny this.  I'm just sayin'...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 2:05pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 

I am Deputy Sector Chief for Healthcare/Public Health to the FBI through a private industry alliance.  I attend classified briefings and have a security clearance.  

The guy you quoted is a JD politician, no science/medical background.  Typical DC liteweight figure, now working for the Hudson Institute.  *yawn* Very influential indeed.   

Morrison holds a Juris Doctor from George Washington University and a BA in Political Science from the University of Minnesota.[10]

Take Trump's word for it also.  He is obviously so competent, unlike Pres. Obama, who successfully fended off two pandemics and multiple terrorist threats. 

Curious how did Obama fend off two pandemics without the NSC pandemic unit? It wasn't formed until the final months of his presidency, 7 years after H1N1 started and 2 years after the Ebola epidemic. And you do remember who was Obama's Ebola czar right? Robert Klain another JD 

Not an Obama fan, huh?  

We were extremely busy back then, dealing with ISIL (rookies like you call them ISIS), cyberthreats from Russia (remember them?) and China, restive N. Korea etc.  Syria was using poison gas on its rebels, Obama should have nuked Assad in his palace.  He didn't because of Russian bluster. 

I don't know Klain, but he was very experienced in political realms and seems to have been competent enough, unlike anyone in Trump's sphere (Fauci excluded). 

So one JD appointed to a position by Trump is bad and one JD appointed to a position by Obama is good when the common denominators are both dealt with potential pandemics and both were JD's not MD's. Your political bias is astounding, especially given your previous post about JD politicians without medical/science degrees. And you didn't answer the question you danced and deflected all the way around it with irrelevant information.

Obama's JD, Ron Klain was an accomplished political manager who was Chief of Staff for Vice Presidents Al Gore and Joe Biden.   Your guy Morrison is a political hack who now sucks the teat at the neocon Hudson Institute in DC. 

Obama's response to pandemics was much more effective than Trump's, who has killed more Americans than the Viet Nam war....and counting.  Try again.  Get a new name, AI is only half right.

Pandemic being singular not plural, as Ebola was not a pandemic as you would like to claim. Funny as a epidemiologist you should well know the difference and I'm sure you do. But perhaps the political virus is effecting your intelligence or just your rational thinking capability and memory. Maybe a nice drive in a tank around a peaceful and lawful protest would cure it. Dr TANK does have a nice ring to it. Would it matter too much to you if it was a Chinese tank?

And you know the anti pandemic team in the NSC was merged with 2 other directorates into one and renamed but with the exact same mission. And since you were in government at least to some degree as you claim, you know about government redundancy and you know they were not the only government agency tasked with that mission or at least to have that aspect included in their mission.


 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 2:08pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

What can I say, I'd take the word of someone of who has actually done the job as a senior director at that level and who was actually there and has firsthand knowledge, over someone who took a 2 day course offered by the FBI and was never there or at that level. 


AI, I say this with no malice or wish to denigrate your opinion.  However, reading CRS's posts has allowed me to put a few things together.  If CRS's credentials go as "high" as I suspect, he's one of the dudes that helps writes the policy that directors follow.  That's not to say CRS should confirm or deny this.  I'm just sayin'...

You maybe right WM, however I highly suspect if that was the case he would have let everyone know, as he does shall I say have a certain penchant in that regard.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 2:10pm

Back on topic,

Well.done AI 

Changed the narrative again, 

Aka Chump

But the

 FACT OF THE MATTER IS 

CHUMP IS AN ABJECT FAILURE

HE AND HE ALONE

IS RESPONSIBLE

FOR SO FAR 

91,000 and counting

AMERICAN DEATHS.....

This orange faced clown ,

Will say,blame anyone for his failure....

  1. THE BUCK STOPS ON HIS DESK

SACK HIM, SACK HIM 

SACK THE LIAR....

.

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 2:21pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

Back on topic,

Well.done AI 

Changed the narrative again, 

Aka Chump

But the

 FACT OF THE MATTER IS 

CHUMP IS AN ABJECT FAILURE

HE AND HE ALONE

IS RESPONSIBLE

FOR SO FAR 

91,000 and counting

AMERICAN DEATHS.....

This orange faced clown ,

Will say,blame anyone for his failure....

  1. THE BUCK STOPS ON HIS DESK

SACK HIM, SACK HIM 

SACK THE LIAR....

.

Actually I didn't bring up politics then or now. You did and CSR did but then you both always do. Maybe you need a reading comprehension course or stronger glasses hell maybe both? But nice try, feeble and weak but at least you tried right.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 2:45pm

So do you agree 

That your Chump administration has Failed? 

Or do you blame everyone else like you leader? 

America is approximately 20x the population of Australia .

We have just had our 100th death

20x 100 =2000

So why if your administration is sooooo great 

Why is your death 91,000 ?and ours 100? 

I would like an explanation thats all,

 I could ask the same question to technophobe about why the UK's is so high, but I know Techno,blames the governments response,why don't you man up and and call a spade a spade.....

Instead of changing the narrative as your best mate chump does and blaming, China,CNN,CDC,FAUCI 

talk about WEAK 

CHUMP IS THE WEAKEST LEADER THE USA HAS EVER HAD....

what a loser....

SACK HIM.....

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 4:07pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

So do you agree 

That your Chump administration has Failed? 

Or do you blame everyone else like you leader? 

America is approximately 20x the population of Australia .

We have just had our 100th death

20x 100 =2000

So why if your administration is sooooo great 

Why is your death 91,000 ?and ours 100? 

I would like an explanation thats all,

 I could ask the same question to technophobe about why the UK's is so high, but I know Techno,blames the governments response,why don't you man up and and call a spade a spade.....

Instead of changing the narrative as your best mate chump does and blaming, China,CNN,CDC,FAUCI 

talk about WEAK 

CHUMP IS THE WEAKEST LEADER THE USA HAS EVER HAD....

what a loser....

SACK HIM.....

I think no matter who was or is in charge people were going to die from this virus and still will. However it does seem the virus just hastened that along for the vast majority who already had one foot in the grave and or serious medical conditions, but viruses are like that. I blame Trump for the US deaths no more or less than I blame Cuomo for the New York deaths which has more than any other US city. We live in a country that is federalist and public health decisions are made at the state, county and city level and in every past pandemic it has been the same way, this is nothing new. 

You of course know little of US history and the difference between the states rights and the federal government, which is odd given US politics live in your head or is it just Trump that lives in your head, and there is a lot of empty space for him there.

 But then again you'd hardly be the first to spout about something you know virtually nothing about. You merely have your rhetoric, the same tired thing time after time kind of like a pull string puppet with only one or two sayings only with an Aussie accent.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 4:45pm

Well actually I'm English....

And speak with a Birmingham accent.... 

Been here 33 years best move we ever made 

And how do you know I don't know anything about American politics,

I just like to wind you rednecks up lol

Because the whole world is laughing at the Orange faced clown.....LMAO

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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