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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

USA death rate passes UK

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EdwinSm, View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 19 2020 at 11:38pm

As a person with close family in the UK I have been saddened about how things got out of control so quickly, but now the rates have been coming down.  In comparison the USA with its late start in the pandemic has now surpassed UK in deaths per population.  At least according to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries


[Ps. The Worldometer rates seem higher than some others, but that is because it includes various areas like US Virgin Island, Peurto Rico, where as CDC reports them seperately]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 4:36am

The U.S. didn't have a late start in this Pandemic.  The U.S. didn't have testing for a month.  Further, the U.S. has a compromised CDC that isn't reporting the appropriate numbers and categorizing deaths as other than Covid.  Shades of China.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 1:44pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

  Further, the U.S. has a compromised CDC that isn't reporting the appropriate numbers and categorizing deaths as other than Covid.  Shades of China.  

Link to any factual information that backs that claim up? Shades of conspiracy woo woo 

“Facts don't care about your feelings.”
― Ben Shapiro
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 1:53pm

I dissagree, Witchy (although you are almost certainly right about the CDC, as they have been both badly underfunded and then defunded).  

China, like the USA covered things up at the beginning.  Had they not done so, the whole thing could have been nipped in the bud.  But once the cat was out of the bag, they went hell-for-leather to eliminate the virus.

The government in the US on the other hand, seems to be unable to see the cat running around and p'ing on the carpet.  They are still trying to cover things up - with disasterous results.  "Less tests = less cases;  It's China's fault, the Democrat's fault, the fault of the scientists, governors, press (God knows maybe vaccines, aliens and 5G)"  - the first half of which is partly true, but that is of no help when leadership is clearly needed

When the cat makes a mess on the carpet, clean it up.  Don't just blame the dog and pretend it will go away on its own.  That just stinks.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 2:00pm

As a point of interest, the UK is no better.    

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 2:41pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I dissagree, Witchy (although you are almost certainly right about the CDC, as they have been both badly underfunded and then defunded).  


Well facts say otherwise. You do know the CDC budget is public information right and hardly hard to find. Funding for the CDC has actually increased every year as you can see. And has a bigger budget now then under the Obama administration.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 2:47pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

As a point of interest, the UK is no better.    

You know who is better? Sweden.

Now, as infection numbers surge again in much of Europe, the country of 10 million people has some of the lowest numbers of new coronavirus cases -- and only 14 virus patients in intensive care.

According to the European Center for Disease Control, Sweden has reported 30.3 new COVID-19 cases per 100,000 inhabitants in the last 14 days, compared with 292.2 in Spain, 172.1 in France, 61.8 in the U.K. and 69.2 in Denmark, all of which imposed strict lockdowns early in the pandemic.

Unlike most European countries that have mandated wearing face masks in public spaces, Sweden does not recommend their broad use, and people largely follow that recommendation.

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/sweden-spared-surge-virus-cases-063200539.html

No masks and a low infection rate, well how can that be LOL.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 4:05pm

Given the stats around this virus take about 4 weeks to really get out, we have to wait  and see what happens in a few weeks,but the forecast is not looking great,

Maybe we should just euthanize anyone at risk,more humane less costly....(sorry dark humor)😈

Take care all 😷😉


.


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 4:45pm

Techno, you get no argument from me.  I absolutely agree.  And I'm not sure what you disagree with...  can you elaborate?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 5:13pm

"Shades of China",  just that bit Witchy.  In the end they did rather better than the USA, far better than Sweden*   Everything else you said was spot on, except that comparison with China.  

Xi Jinping woke up to the threat eventually and then dealt with it decisively.  Donald Trump still has not.





*who are doing reasonably well now, but had a colossal per capita death rate at the start (they are a pretty lightly populated country.  Their capital is spread across 14 islands!).  They also utterly failed to achieve herd immunity and their health minister has appologised for his mistakes.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 5:34pm

I see what you're saying.  Completely agree!  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 7:22pm


COUNTRY
CONFIRMED
DEATHS
CASE-FATALITY
DEATHS/100K POP.
San Marino723425.8%124.32
Peru756,41231,2834.1%97.79
Belgium100,7489,9449.9%87.06
Andorra1,564533.4%68.83
Bolivia130,4707,5865.8%66.82
Chile444,67412,2542.8%65.43
Spain640,04030,4954.8%65.27
Brazil4,528,240136,5323.0%65.18
Ecuador125,62011,0848.8%64.88
United Kingdom392,84541,84810.7%62.94
US6,764,970199,2592.9%60.90

https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2020 at 8:14pm

I'm not an expert, because after all, I'm not an actor, but the Dems seem to have been a little ...

“Facts don't care about your feelings.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2020 at 9:01am

H1N1 killed 12,469 Americans,  Covid19 has killed 213,000 Americans* - so far.   Over 200,000 more!

I am not a huge fan of Obama, but comparing the two outbreaks is like comparing mice and elephants.  At least Obama declared a national emergency after 4 1/2 months, Trump on the other hand, after 8 months or so, says the United states is: "doing Very well, the best in the world."






*The figure quoted is from April 2009 to April 2010, 12 months.  The Covid19 deaths are ongoing and currenlty cover approximately 8 months.  https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/2009-h1n1-pandemic.html

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2020 at 9:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2020 at 1:06pm

Absolutely right - Obama didn't declare it a national emergency until October 2009. Shame the meme doesn't mention the three public health emergencies that he did declare, starting in April when they were 20 US cases. By contrast, Trump has downplayed it from day one, and even now he's claiming that it's "disappearing" from the States as the cases and deaths continue to climb. He hasn't been "slow" - he's just flat out decided it's not in his interest to acknowledge it, even as people die on ventilators. 





 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2020 at 3:36pm

H1N1 was  not a

"NOVEL" virus.....in 2009

(it was in 1918 and look what happened then)


Covid19 is a Novel virus.....

And should be treated as such.....

ITS NEW NEVER BEEN SEEN BEFORE......

I really don't get how people don't understand that concept......



Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 12 2020 at 11:47pm

For sake of completeness of recording, I should report that of 12th November the UK death rate was basically equal to that of the USA (749 deaths/ million).  

As the UK is further into it's 2nd wave I expect that in the days ahead it will rise higher on that count than the USA (although the latter may catch up again later if the UK lockdowns suppress this wave).


All data from: https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#nav-yesterday



ps. if someone wants to provide other data, feel free but please state what territories (eg Guam, Puerto Rico) are included or not.  This is because in the "health world" different bodies seem to have different definitions of what to include in the "USA".


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 9:39am

https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/public-health-england-death-data-revised/

Public Health England has changed its definition of deaths. The new definition is now death in a person with a laboratory-confirmed positive COVID-19 test and died within (equal to or less than) 28 days of the first positive specimen date will now be reported

The new data can be accessed here.

What this means is that England has had 36,695 deaths using this definition as opposed to the previous reported 42,072 – a difference of 5,377.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 10:13am

I was aware of that major reduction in UK data (from August).  This does make country to country comparison difficult, when each country can use their own definition.

Other difficulties involve limited testing: If you don't test, then you don't report cases.   Here one needs also to know how the deaths coded "pneumonia "  compare to previous years to see if covid deaths are being reported as pneumonia, or one needs to check heart related deaths as well.  

Although one could look for day to day changes, the main lesson from this is that both the USA and the UK are doing badly when one looks at covid deaths.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 10:44am

That is so true.

The USA is lucky, at least in comparison to us over here, you got a chance to remove your incompetent leader.  We are stuck with ours.

ERCD
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 11:13am

At this point they're just numbers. I prefer a lot, a little, rising, falling, etc. Even here, some states count presumptive deaths, others don't. Experts here estimate we are only catching about 1 in 5 cases.

I was watching Belgium's numbers, and miraculously they went from 20K cases a day to 5K in a few days after their lockdown. The testing also went down from about 70k a day to 20k a day.    

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 11:22am

What ksc said.  The U.S. saw over 180,000 new infections reported yesterday.  We've been at 120,000plus the last week to 10 days. Tick..tick..tick...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 14 2020 at 1:19pm

12 weeks of lockdown

Melbourne.....

No new cases.....

It's the Only way.....

If you want to get rid of covid....

Sorry to say you don't want to hear that......

Take care all.....


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Skarloey Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2020 at 10:00am

A really great JAMAhttps://youtu.be/2tsUTAWBJ9M video with Mark Lipsitch about lockdowns (Great Barrington v John Snow) both sides do make some interesting and valid points. As a NHS working i too lean on the side of lockdowns. But I wouldnt say all lockdowns would work as well as Melbourne. Its nearing their summer, they are not a transit hub in the same way a lot of European cities are and I suspect their population density would not be as high either. I dont know enough on their quality of life indicators or age burden. I guess all im saying is what work in one place may not in every. Wish it would.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2020 at 1:27pm

Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

That is so true.

The USA is lucky, at least in comparison to us over here, you got a chance to remove your incompetent leader.  We are stuck with ours.

Only 47 years of proven incompetence experience on Bidens resume. 

“Facts don't care about your feelings.”
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2020 at 2:12pm

Originally posted by Skarloey Skarloey wrote:

A really great JAMAhttps://youtu.be/2tsUTAWBJ9M video with Mark Lipsitch about lockdowns (Great Barrington v John Snow) both sides do make some interesting and valid points. As a NHS working i too lean on the side of lockdowns. But I wouldnt say all lockdowns would work as well as Melbourne. Its nearing their summer, they are not a transit hub in the same way a lot of European cities are and I suspect their population density would not be as high either. I dont know enough on their quality of life indicators or age burden. I guess all im saying is what work in one place may not in every. Wish it would.

yes we are blessed with distance here......

but I don't see another way out......

Vaccine ??

I'm pro vaccine,but craming years of research into months?? 

toying with idea to be 1st in family to test it......

rather me than the kids.....

take care all......😷😉......

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 15 2020 at 8:04pm

Carbon, I agree with you that without a vaccine that is the only way.  Americans are confused and too many do not believe its a real threat. On top of the americans are too righteous so wouldn't listen anyway!  Its just a mess.  Praying for everyone to stay safe and for us all to beat this!

NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 16 2020 at 12:52am

Everyone needs to take a chill pill,

Take a step back and look at the situation your in.....

The cavlary isn't coming anytime soon.....

Best get your preps up, 

there will be millions lining up at the food banks....

Take care all, not looking good  😷😉


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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