Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
UT Professor Says Death Is Imminent |
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Samoa
Valued Member Joined: March 30 2006 Status: Offline Points: 507 |
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Texasgirl, you earlier called Pianka a Kook, I disagree. A Kook
doesn't know what he's talking about. Actually a good many
members of the Scientific Community feel the exact same way as
Pianka. They just don't come out in public, and certainly not
with the tone that Pianka uses.
He strikes me as somewhat of a snake oil salesman, out for personal gain. But I see little to argue with in his message. What do you think, we should just go on burning fossil fuels, making babies, slaughtering wildlife? |
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panbingliang
advanced Member Joined: April 04 2006 Location: China Status: Offline Points: 29 |
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If there is not such kind of "Intellectual Elite" on the front of bird flu, perhaps it will be true 90% population will dead of brid flu.
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Samoa,
You are certainly entitled to your opionion as am I. Let me ask you this, do we start sterilizing folks or maybe you could elect someone to start taking out whomever you believe should go first.
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Samoa
Valued Member Joined: March 30 2006 Status: Offline Points: 507 |
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Texgirl:
I'm not advocating anything like sterilization or mass culling of the population. I'm just saying that I don't think Pianka's comments, however Politically Incorrect they may be, are probably more accurate than we like to think. I'm an old man, I have travelled extensively. I'm not talking "Club Med" here. I've seen some real sh*tholes in this world. After experiencing some of these places, you have to ask yourself why SO MANY live in squalor, with absolutely no hope. Something HAS to happen. Just one example - In 1972 in Calcutta, I gave a little beggar girl a few rupees. You're supposed to only give them a few paise, if anything. A rupee was worth .15, there are 100 paise in a rupee. After three days of giving the kid too much money, her father AND A LAWYER offerred to sell the girl to me, all legal, all documented, for US$200. Take a trip to Eritrea. Mass starvation, the smell, the kids crying, and half the population is under 20. UN Food Program trucks swamped, lines for food and vitamins that snake for 100 yards. You go there. You'll come back with a new perspective, believe you me. |
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Fiddlerdave
Valued Member Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 259 |
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I wonder, are so many people thinking Pianka is ADVOCATING active population reduction because he says "We're looking forward to a huge collapse." ? When I read that, I hear the usual sales meeting statement like "We are looking forward to reduced 3rd quarter sales". I don't see ANY statements as advocating killing 90%, or telling people Ebola should be engineered to kill people, except from Mims. Pianka is saying Ebola is NATURE's ideal tool for reducing 90% of the population, a discussion I have read in newspapers by people fearful of an outbreak more than 10 years ago. Pianka ADVOCATING these things is what this Mims guy SAYS Pianka is saying, and I just don't see it in Pianka's statements.
I believe the earth would do better with 90% less people, and the earth is going to reduce the population by this much if we continue doing what we do, but that doesn't mean I advocate it. I FEAR it, and I fear everyone's acting like its far away (Just like BF). A preferrable solution: The earth would do very well with the current population is we quit some of our habits that are trashing the ecosystem and the things that make fertile ground for microbes that enjoy infecting and killing people. WE HAVE ALREADY MADE THE CHOICE TO KILL 90% of the population at some point in the not too distant future. That is Pianka's message. "This is gonna happen in your lifetime," he told his St. Edward's audience. "Do you wanna go there? We've already gone there. We waited too long."
BTW, still waiting for the "Statement of purpose on his website" for the "crank loon"! Outlaw? Harp? CV? Clue us in.
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Dave
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for us"! |
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O.K Samoa, Truce. Maybe I sensed a hint of something in your post and took it the wrong way. Guess what I should of said in my prior post is that I feel this Dr. was irresponsible in his approach. You never really know who is listening or what they may do with such ideas. Some people dont need much of a push to go over the edge. I'm sure you know what I mean. |
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David
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We certainly want to make the earth happy. |
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Samoa
Valued Member Joined: March 30 2006 Status: Offline Points: 507 |
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Tex, we DO agree that this guy is way too irresponsible, I would
use the term "Loose Cannon", rather than "Kook". It sounds like
he's making the Banquet Circuit with the prediction of a coming
Apocalypse. There's always an audience for Doom &
Gloom. The really scarey thing is that he may well be onto
something with the "mass die-off" scenario.
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Fiddlerdave
Valued Member Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 259 |
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Tex, we DO agree that this guy is way too irresponsible, I would use the term "Loose Cannon", rather than "Kook". It sounds like he's making the Banquet Circuit with the prediction of a coming Apocalypse. There's always an audience for Doom & Gloom. The really scarey thing is that he may well be onto something with the "mass die-off" scenario.
LOL! and many would say that describes what we are doing on this board! Certainly many of the posts (and members) of this board! In fact, many of our partners and spouses use that description for us right now! We must be the Gloom Committee! The Doom and Gloom Players! And we sure have one hell of a die-off scenario Going! Let's hope Dr. Mims never hears about this site!
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Dave
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for us"! |
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Lee2
Valued Member Joined: February 17 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 23 |
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http://motls.blogspot.com/2006/04/eric-pianka-saving-earth-by-killing-58.html
There actually is evidence that Pianka has been making the Eubola speech for many years. It is just now coming out of the classroom...
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Fiddlerdave
Valued Member Joined: February 09 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 259 |
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If you want o decide for yourself about Pianka's "looneyness", If anyone would actually like to read the words Dr. Pianas says, and not the warped and deliberate misinterpretation the professor Dr. Mims has made of Pianaka's statements, you can see it here. As we contemplate ways to survive a pandemic with a probable tremendous reduction on population in a horrible fashion (chaos, no medical care, starvation, war, mobs), I just can't see how this is some awful point of view. You may not agree, but not only H5N1, but turberculosis, Ebola, Hepatitus, and many other diseases are waiting in the wings, and don't need the help of a whacko student to emerge. We need to proactively decide how we want to survive the all the crises that we have already set in motion.
Emphasis mine in the article.
Eric R. Pianka I have two grandchildren and I want them to inherit a stable Earth. But I fear for them. Humans have overpopulated the Earth and in the process have created an ideal nutritional substrate on which bacteria and viruses (microbes) will grow and prosper. We are behaving like bacteria growing on an agar plate, flourishing until natural limits are reached or until another microbe colonizes and takes over, using them as their resource. In addition to our extremely high population density, we are social and mobile, exactly the conditions that favor growth and spread of pathogenic (disease-causing) microbes. I believe it is only a matter of time until microbes once again assert control over our population, since we are unwilling to control it ourselves. This idea has been espoused by ecologists for at least four decades and is nothing new. People just don't want to hear it. Population crashes caused by disease have happened many times in the past. In the 1330s bubonic plague killed one third of the people in Europe's crowded cities. Smallpox and measles decimated Native Americans when Europeans transported them to the new world. HIV is a relatively new disease wreaking havoc in Africa and Asia. Another population crash is inevitable, but the next one will probably be world-wide. People think unrealistically because they have lost touch with the natural world. Many people today do not really know where and how our food is produced, and on what our life support systems are based. As we continue paving over natural habitats, many think that we can disrupt and despoil the environment indefinitely. We have already taken half of this planet's land surface. Per capita shares of all the things that really matter (air, food, soil, and water) are continuously falling. Our economic system is based on the principle of a chain letter: growth, growth, and more growth. Such runaway growth only expands a bubble that cannot be sustained in a finite world. We are running out of virtually everything from oil, food and land to clean air and water. Some politicians, economists, and corporations want us to believe that technology will come to our rescue. But we have a false sense of security if we think that science can respond quickly enough to minimize threats from emerging diseases. Microbes have such short lifecycles that they can evolve exceedingly fast, much faster than we can respond to them. Many bacteria have evolved resistance to most antibiotics, and viruses are resistant to just about anything. Defense always lags behind offense. So far, modern humans have just been lucky. A reactive approach to problems isn't enough, we also need to be proactive and anticipate problems before they become too severe to keep them from getting out of control.Many people believe that Earth and all its resources exist solely for human benefit and consumption, this is anthropocentrism. We should allow the millions of other denizens of this Earth some space to live -- they evolved here just as we did and have a right to this planet, too. I do not bear any ill will toward humanity. However, I am convinced that the world WOULD clearly be much better off without so many of us. Simply stopping the destruction of rainforests would help mediate some current planetary ills, including the release of previously unknown pathogens. The ancient Chinese curse "may you live in interesting times" comes to mind -- we are living in one of the most interesting times humans have ever experienced. For example, consider the manifold effects of global warming. We need to make a transition to a sustainable world. If we don't, nature is going to do it for us in ways of her own choosing. By definition, these ways will not be ours and they won't be much fun. Think about that. If you don't believe me, read Richard Heinberg's "The Party's Over," Sean Nee's one page commentary "The great chain of being" in Nature (2005, vol.435:page 429), and Jared Diamond's "Guns, Germs, and Steel." |
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Dave
"Ask not for whom the bell tolls, it tolls for us"! |
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David
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I liked it better when primitive man threw virgins into sinkholes to appease the earth.
There are just so many virgins they can kill. Neo-pagans want to sacrifice 90% of us. |
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