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Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant

Where is everyone ??

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Hazelpad View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 04 2022 at 6:21pm

Where has everyone gone.

Have I missed something.  

 I can see others posting on other prep forums over the years...but where is everyone on this forum. It is very dead with only a few contributors.  It used to be a big working science community too from lots of labs and backgrounds, but all gone.

I know a lot of the science people are also on  flutrackers  but didnt realise they werent here anymore.

I have a few older members emails so can get in touch.

Very different experience revisiting here now.  Did you all fall out as you were all on here for years.  No prepper talk now or weekend bug out trial  and equipment etc.

Maybe everyone just fed up with pandemic and moved on. It's just so different having come back that's why I was asking. Not anything wrong with it.

Hz x.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2022 at 8:12pm

Originally posted by Hazelpad Hazelpad wrote:

Where has everyone gone.

Have I missed something.  

 I can see others posting on other prep forums over the years...but where is everyone on this forum. It is very dead with only a few contributors.  It used to be a big working science community too from lots of labs and backgrounds, but all gone.

I know a lot of the science people are also on  flutrackers  but didnt realise they werent here anymore.

I have a few older members emails so can get in touch.

Very different experience revisiting here now.  Did you all fall out as you were all on here for years.  No prepper talk now or weekend bug out trial  and equipment etc.

Maybe everyone just fed up with pandemic and moved on. It's just so different having come back that's why I was asking. Not anything wrong with it.

Hz x.

Nice to hear from you!  I have worked in public health science for over 30 years and gave up because some posters have taken a distinct "anti-science" stance.  I'm in touch via email with many of the old crowd.   Please message me if you would like to communicate offline.

Comments that have recently been made about the risks of COVID-19 vaccination are absolute garbage.   

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 04 2022 at 10:16pm

There's been a lot of really nasty fighting going on on here. It appears you are either 100% pro vaccine or you are a crazy mad anti vaxxer. There is no middle ground. You missed a whole rash of name calling and personal insults. There appears to be little or no tolerance for any newly emerging info that suggests the vaccines may harm people, or that they might not work very well or that you can be vaxxed and still catch Covid and transmit it to others - which is what the science now tells us - but some people on here are clinging to the original narrative that the vaccines are 100% effective, and they are clinging to it as if their lives depended on it. 

I'd say that the biggest thorn has been the idea that not one size fits all concerning vaccines. The idea that older, vulnerable and unhealthy people might benefit from the vaccines, whereas young people and children gain no discernable benefit from having one. That really causes outrage.

The problem has been that as new data has emerged, some people have been very resistant to it being posted and the insults started. Unfortunately most of the old timers, for one reason or another had fallen away from the site before the mud slinging started and then plenty more left. I wish there was a middle ground but there doesn't appear to be. 

The good old days of discussion and debate have long since gone. It's lovely to see you back, as your points are always well presented and informative. I wish some of the old, pre-Covid crowd would come back, but some, like Rickster, have died. Flumom was run off the site for a comment she made and wouldn't apologise for, Jacksdad was rushed off his feet as a health care worker when Covid erupted and hasn't really been back since, Albert hasn't made an appearance in years.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Littlesmile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 12:38am

I also would like to see the older ones on this forum return too.. I didn't realise they are on another site, thanks :-) 


And I would call myself 'the middle ground'. I'm not one side or the other in anything, I don't think the world is black and white... But I don't agree with fighting and what I call trigger posts. I do ask myself why some people are on this forum as I would class this as a prepper place.

I would like to see more prepper things..



:-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 12:40am

Originally posted by Littlesmile Littlesmile wrote:

I would like to see more prepper things..

Me too. There used to be a lot more but there's none now.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 1:52am

DJ-I somewhat feel guilty for taking this much room...with my daily scenario's, trying to find out "where we are"...

I am NOT out to convince anyone on anything...since I am still learning a lot myself each day...Sharing some of it on this forum (for non-experts, in my idea flutrackers-members do have often a more medical related background). 

In my opinion (and nothing more then just an opinion) in this pandemic we "ran out of experts" since the best, most intelligent specialists never faced this kind of pandemic...

So we all have to try to be open, learn...

Since we are humans, with emotions, fears, I can imagine these emotions may cause unwanted reactions. Insults are very unwelcome ! If you "have all the answers" allready-"share your thoughts in modesty" !

But please-everyone !!-come back ! We need your brains and ideas !


We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Littlesmile Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 3:54am

I like your posts Dutch Josh!! Please don't change them.. One of the only reasons I'm still here!!

As I also am wanting to learn :-)

:-)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Tabitha111 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 5:25am

I post & follow on another forum that serves me better. I do come here to read DJ's posts but agree that this forum is not the same.  I wish we had an "ignore" button here (we have that on the other forum I belong to)

'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiminNM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 5:36am

Hazelpad! Good to see you, and I'm glad you posted this.

There was SO much conflict on here for months it became an extremely unpleasant place to be. KiwiMom summed it up well. With Delta then especially Omicron I've forced myself back, but really miss what it was before. I miss the people and the prep discussions. (I was around for years before registering)

I'm all for the science, which by its very nature changes as we learn more.

AND, also agree with KiwiMom there is some room for discussion without it being conflict-laden. (My immune system responded to the vaccine in ways that are ongoing and irritating, but knowing it will almost definitely save my life makes it totally worth it. But Kiwi is right - it's been politicized so much there is not a safe way to discuss)

DJ - Your posts are SO valuable! Don't change a thing. (well, if I had a magic wand I would make formatting posts much easier, so they're easier to read, but you have zero control over that!)

CRS - PLEASE come back and post and ignore the crap that pisses you off. Really miss your insight.

Speaking of, been meaning to ask, is there a way to 'mute' posters whose posts I just don't want to see? ;-)

(thanks for mentioning the other board, long time member there but haven't checked it - other than DJs posts - in years)




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiminNM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 5:38am

Originally posted by Tabitha111 Tabitha111 wrote:

I post & follow on another forum that serves me better. I do come here to read DJ's posts but agree that this forum is not the same.  I wish we had an "ignore" button here (we have that on the other forum I belong to)



If you're willing to share I'd love to know the forum. message me?  And ditto on the "ignore" button!!!!! (put that in my comment that I was typing while you were posting this) 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiminNM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 5:39am

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by Littlesmile Littlesmile wrote:

I would like to see more prepper things..

Me too. There used to be a lot more but there's none now.




I'd love it.  I discovered a HUGE gap in my prepping plan this week and would love to discuss. But without people....  

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KiwiMum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 12:01pm

Originally posted by KiminNM KiminNM wrote:

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by Littlesmile Littlesmile wrote:

I would like to see more prepper things..

Me too. There used to be a lot more but there's none now.




I'd love it.  I discovered a HUGE gap in my prepping plan this week and would love to discuss. But without people....  

Well why don't we make an effort to bring back the prepping stuff? I love prepping and have learned some really useful things here over the years. Perhaps we can move some of the focus back onto it.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 4:58pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

There's been a lot of really nasty fighting going on on here. It appears you are either 100% pro vaccine or you are a crazy mad anti vaxxer. There is no middle ground. You missed a whole rash of name calling and personal insults. There appears to be little or no tolerance for any newly emerging info that suggests the vaccines may harm people, or that they might not work very well or that you can be vaxxed and still catch Covid and transmit it to others - which is what the science now tells us - but some people on here are clinging to the original narrative that the vaccines are 100% effective, and they are clinging to it as if their lives depended on it. 

I'd say that the biggest thorn has been the idea that not one size fits all concerning vaccines. The idea that older, vulnerable and unhealthy people might benefit from the vaccines, whereas young people and children gain no discernable benefit from having one. That really causes outrage.

The problem has been that as new data has emerged, some people have been very resistant to it being posted and the insults started. 

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 05 2022 at 11:29pm

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

There's been a lot of really nasty fighting going on on here. It appears you are either 100% pro vaccine or you are a crazy mad anti vaxxer. There is no middle ground. You missed a whole rash of name calling and personal insults. There appears to be little or no tolerance for any newly emerging info that suggests the vaccines may harm people, or that they might not work very well or that you can be vaxxed and still catch Covid and transmit it to others - which is what the science now tells us - but some people on here are clinging to the original narrative that the vaccines are 100% effective, and they are clinging to it as if their lives depended on it. 

I'd say that the biggest thorn has been the idea that not one size fits all concerning vaccines. The idea that older, vulnerable and unhealthy people might benefit from the vaccines, whereas young people and children gain no discernable benefit from having one. That really causes outrage.

The problem has been that as new data has emerged, some people have been very resistant to it being posted and the insults started. 

Again, anti-science garbage. 

If any of you have ever worked on international vaccination strategy, please raise your hand.  I was involved in the vaccination campaign to eradicate smallpox in the 1970s and continue to advise the US government on vaccination strategies for homeland security/bioterrorism. 

The few adverse side-effects occurring to the mRNA vaccines were not unexpected and, in fact, far less than typically occur from vaccination for seasonal flu and other routine innoculation.  Some on this site tout numbers self-reported from the public and private medical practitioners as evidence that mRNA vaccines are harmful. 

Myocarditis?  It is always present in the population.  True, some who were vaccinated developed mild cases, but this was statistically indistinguishable from what was expected. 

Advantages of old-style vaccines?  Some have said they would prefer the Chinese Sino-Vax.  Good luck. 

A leaked health ministry document has prompted calls in Thailand for medical staff inoculated against Covid-19 to be given a booster of an mRNA vaccine, after it included a comment that such a move could dent public confidence in China's Sinovac Biotech's vaccine.

The internal memo, which included various opinions, was reported by local media and shared widely on social media. It was confirmed by Thai Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul as being authentic.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/05/asia/thailand-sinovac-vaccine-efficacy-intl-hnk/index.html


CRS, DrPH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2022 at 6:43am

Hi Hazel, Yeah same thought too. 

I believe many dropped out, as NPC's flooded the site. Group think made it unbearable.

I've seen a few chime in's here and there. I know some used the old prepper talk and are locked in the bunker.


Has anyone heard from Albert lately?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hazelpad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2022 at 10:26am

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply I was just a bit confused as to what had changed. 

Concerning to vaccinate or not to vaccinate I dont have an answer.  Someone living in a busy city that has seen family members die will have a very different opinion to someone living rural and never seen the dam thing wonder if it exists.  For someone who has seen it go through care homes and special needs centres will have a different attitude to those who have seen their kids test positive without so much as a sneeze.  Someone with asthma that knows what it is like not to be able to breath will differ from the healthy. Someone caring for a child with cystic fibrosis will have different view than those who have healthy children.

  Someone may not trust the origin  of the vaccine and will take the virus, others dont trust the origin of the virus and will take the vaccine.  Some dont trust either and are caught in a dilemma.

I dont.know much about human nature and I am crap at psychology so I have no answer to all that's gone on I just saw that the forum had changed.

I enjoyed the prepping not because I felt the need to hide away, prepping to me isnt about that.  Scotland may be a bit wild but we dont have ice storms or tornadoes like many who need to prep.  For me  its a hobby, like gaming, or playing tennis.  I still cant light a bloody fire, my homemade bread is still crap and my survival garden couldnt feed a family of mice never mind my family for a year.  My outdoor shelters leak or blow over, my water purifiers are full of mud and when I catch and cook outside my kids all watch me with their mcDonalds hanging out their mouths and eyebrows raised... when I tried to make natural shampoo my blonde hair turned slightly green, and my search and rescue torches have been so bright I have blinded the foxes , and woken up the neighbours from 10 miles away ( I have now learned how to turn them down),  but you know I have become quite the ninja at some stuff,  and I learned so much from this forum.  

Take care you all and thanks for the update.  I appreciate you taking the time.

Hz x




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2022 at 6:55pm

NPC's



Can't make this up


If you are scratching your head...


LOL


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 06 2022 at 7:06pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

There's been a lot of really nasty fighting going on on here. It appears you are either 100% pro vaccine or you are a crazy mad anti vaxxer. There is no middle ground. You missed a whole rash of name calling and personal insults. There appears to be little or no tolerance for any newly emerging info that suggests the vaccines may harm people, or that they might not work very well or that you can be vaxxed and still catch Covid and transmit it to others - which is what the science now tells us - but some people on here are clinging to the original narrative that the vaccines are 100% effective, and they are clinging to it as if their lives depended on it. 

I'd say that the biggest thorn has been the idea that not one size fits all concerning vaccines. The idea that older, vulnerable and unhealthy people might benefit from the vaccines, whereas young people and children gain no discernable benefit from having one. That really causes outrage.

The problem has been that as new data has emerged, some people have been very resistant to it being posted and the insults started. 

Again, anti-science garbage. 

If any of you have ever worked on international vaccination strategy, please raise your hand.  I was involved in the vaccination campaign to eradicate smallpox in the 1970s and continue to advise the US government on vaccination strategies for homeland security/bioterrorism. 

The few adverse side-effects occurring to the mRNA vaccines were not unexpected and, in fact, far less than typically occur from vaccination for seasonal flu and other routine innoculation.  Some on this site tout numbers self-reported from the public and private medical practitioners as evidence that mRNA vaccines are harmful. 

Myocarditis?  It is always present in the population.  True, some who were vaccinated developed mild cases, but this was statistically indistinguishable from what was expected. 

Advantages of old-style vaccines?  Some have said they would prefer the Chinese Sino-Vax.  Good luck. 

A leaked health ministry document has prompted calls in Thailand for medical staff inoculated against Covid-19 to be given a booster of an mRNA vaccine, after it included a comment that such a move could dent public confidence in China's Sinovac Biotech's vaccine.

The internal memo, which included various opinions, was reported by local media and shared widely on social media. It was confirmed by Thai Health Minister Anutin Charnvirakul as being authentic.

https://www.cnn.com/2021/07/05/asia/thailand-sinovac-vaccine-efficacy-intl-hnk/index.html


Anti Science LOL that's the new rally cry for those who can't stand that something they blindly believe is under scrutiny and is under that scrutiny rightly so. The following does a rather good job of laying it all out.

Evidence does not justify mandatory vaccines - everyone should have the right to informed choice


Dear Editor,

As doctors and health professionals, many of whom work in the NHS, we would like to express our opposition to anti-SARS-CoV-2 vaccination being mandated for any group of people, including health and care workers. We agree with the House of Lords committee that the evidence is insufficient to justify this measure, but the government and Parliament do not appear to be listening and mandatory vaccines for NHS staff looks likely to be passed into law this week.

We do not dispute that covid-19 can be and has been a dangerous infection, and we agree that vaccines are effective in many situations. However, there is considerable uncertainty about the effectiveness of the covid vaccines, some serious short-term complications and a lack of data on long-term harms. In this situation, it is imperative that people are able to make a fully-informed choice about whether to have the vaccine or not.

It is widely accepted that randomised controlled trials are the only means of providing robust data on the efficacy of medical interventions because observational data is subject to uncontrolled biases. Yet the randomised trials of the covid vaccines lasted for a very short time and were only powered to provide definitive statistical evidence on preventing ‘symptomatic infections’, not on preventing infection per se, hospitalisation or death. The trials also provided no data on whether the vaccines reduce transmission or not—things we have had to learn the hard way, through real world evidence like the rapid spread of the Delta and now Omicron variants.

Results from the randomised vaccine trials published so far suggested the vaccines were effective in reducing symptomatic infections for a few weeks. The average duration of follow-up for people in the first report from the Pfizer trial, on which licensing was based, was only 46 days, for example. [1] The recent report on data from people who had been in the trial for up to 6 months revealed that the mean total duration of follow-up for the primary outcome of the double-blind trial was 3.6 months for those who received the vaccine and 3.5 months for those allocated to placebo. [2] Moreover, only 7% of participants actually remained in the double blind trial for 6 months. [3] Real-world data are not consistent with the trial results, with high case numbers in doubly vaccinated individuals reported from the UK [4] and Israel [5], for example. This suggests either that effects of vaccines wear off quickly, and/or that some bias crept into original trial procedures, possibly due to unblinding caused by vaccine reactions [6] or other procedural irregularities. [7] The same observational data suggests the vaccines may reduce hospital admission and death due to covid infection, but, in the absence of data from randomised trials it is difficult to be certain, since unknown factors may bias the data in either direction.

More alarmingly, third and fourth ‘booster’ shots have not been tested in any randomised trials, and other data on the efficacy and safety of administering further doses are scanty.

In other words, data on the only outcome properly tested in randomised trials, the prevention of cases by two vaccinations, appear unreliable, possibly due to rapidly waning effects or other factors, and other outcomes and procedures have not been investigated in randomised trials, meaning there is no secure evidence either way.

As far as the safety of the vaccines is concerned, it is clear that rare but serious, and potentially fatal adverse effects occur, such as thrombosis and myocarditis, [8] and that these took months to identify. Long-term harms will be difficult to detect due to the short duration of the randomised trials, and will only become apparent in coming years.

There are also no data on groups who might be particularly adversely affected by the vaccine, such as those with, or at risk of autoimmune disorders, and there is little data on adverse effects of booster shots, which is significant since there have long been safety concerns about repeated exposure to mRNA technology. [9] Repeated booster vaccines therefore represent cumulative risk for untested benefit.

For young age groups, in whom covid-related morbidity and mortality is low, and for those who have had covid 19 infection already, and appear to have longstanding immunological memory, [10] the harms of taking a vaccine are almost certain to outweigh the benefits to the individual, and the goal of reducing transmission to other people at higher risk has not been demonstrated securely. [11]

Respecting people’s autonomy and bodily integrity is at the heart of human rights and medical ethics and the data currently available on the vaccines by no means justify over-riding these important principles. More good quality research and access to existing data from the vaccine trials are required for people to make fully-informed decisions about whether to take these vaccines or not. [12] Coercing people to have a covid vaccine, either through the threat of legal sanctions or, in the case of mandates for occupational groups, by depriving people of their livelihoods and careers, is not justified due to the prevailing uncertainty about the overall benefits of the vaccines, the unfavourable risk-benefit ratio for many groups, and, not least, the lack of data on long-term harms.

1. Polack FP, Thomas SJ, Kitchin N, et al. Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine. N Engl J Med 2020;383(27):2603-15. doi: 10.1056/NEJMoa2034577 [published Online First: 2020/12/11]
2. Thomas SJ, Moreira ED, Jr., Kitchin N, et al. Safety and Efficacy of the BNT162b2 mRNA Covid-19 Vaccine through 6 Months. N Engl J Med 2021;385(19):1761-73. doi: 10.1056/NEJMoa2110345 [published Online First: 2021/09/16]
3. Doshi P. Does the FDA think these data justify the first full approval of a covid-19 vaccine? British Medical Journal 2021 23rd Aug 2021. https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/08/23/does-the-fda-think-these-data-justi....
4. UK Health Security Agemcy. COVID-19 vaccine surveillance report: Week 48. 2021
5. Goldberg Y, Mandel M, Bar-On YM, et al. Waning Immunity after the BNT162b2 Vaccine in Israel. New England Journal of Medicine 2021;385:e85. doi: DOI: 10.1056/NEJMoa2114228
6. Doshi P. Pfizer and Moderna’s “95% effective” vaccines—we need more details and the raw data. British Medical Journal 2021 4th Jan 2021. https://blogs.bmj.com/bmj/2021/01/04/peter-doshi-pfizer-and-modernas-95-... (accessed 10th Dec 2021).
7. Thacker PD. Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial. British Medical Journal 2021;375:n2635. doi: doi.org/10.1136/bmj.n2635
8. Mevorach D, Anis E, Cedar N, et al. Myocarditis after BNT162b2 mRNA Vaccine against Covid-19 in Israel. New England Journal of Medicine 2021;385:2140-49. doi: 10.1056/NEJMoa2109730
9. Garde D. Lavishly funded Moderna hits safety problems in bold bid to revolutionize medicine. STAT News 2017 10th Jan 2017. https://www.statnews.com/2017/01/10/moderna-trouble-mrna/ (accessed 12th Dec 2021).
10. Dan JM, Mateus J, Cato Y, et al. Immunological memory to SARS-CoV-2 assessed for up to 8 months after infection. Science 2021;371:(6529):eabf4063. doi: 10.1126/science.abf4063
11. Singanayagam A, Hakki S, Dunning J, et al. Community transmission and viral load kinetics of the SARS-CoV-2 delta (B.1.617.2) variant in vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals in the UK: a prospective, longitudinal, cohort study. Lancet Infect Dis 2021 doi: 10.1016/S1473-3099(21)00648-4 [published Online First: 2021/11/11]
12. Tanveer S, Rowhani-Farid A, Hong K, et al. Transparency of COVID-19 vaccine trials: decisions without data. BMJ Evid Based Med 2021 doi: 10.1136/bmjebm-2021-111735 [published Online First: 2021/08/11]

13 December 2021
Joanna Moncrieff
Professor of Critical and Social Psychiatry
Professor Peter C. Gøtzsche, Dr Rufus May, Dr Giovanni Dalla-Valle, Dr Rachel Brown, Dr Lili Dawson, Dr Andrew Docherty, Professor Gabor Keleman, Dr Brian Martindale, Dr John Mason, Dr Gad Meyer, Dr. Livia Hronska, Dr Tomasz Pierscionek, Dr Pino Pini, Dr Jessica Robinson, Dr Clive Sherlock, Dr Marianne Siapera, Dr Federico Soldani, Dr Maria Tsvetkova, Dr Cathy Wield, Dr Sami Timimi, Dr Kasha Siubka-Wood

https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2957/rr-1

Anti Science you say??? The following is anti science and anti reality as well and the idiot should know better.

For months, President Biden has characterized the continued spread of the coronavirus as a "pandemic of the unvaccinated" and repeatedly claimed that vaccinated people cannot spread the virus, contradicting what his own Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has been saying since at least April.


But the CDC has been warning about breakthrough COVID-19 infections for the better part of 2021, issuing an update in April that said, "People can still get sick and possibly spread COVID-19 to others after being fully vaccinated."

Despite the agency clearly stating since at least April that the virus can spread among vaccinated individuals, Biden has repeatedly tried to assign blame to unvaccinated people for the ongoing pandemic.

"This is a pandemic of the unvaccinated," the president told Ohio’s WHIO TV 7 on Dec. 14. "The unvaccinated. Not the vaccinated, the unvaccinated. That’s the problem. Everybody talks about freedom and not to have a shot or have a test. Well guess what? How about patriotism? How about making sure that you’re vaccinated, so you do not spread the disease to anyone else."

On Nov. 3, Biden urged Americans to get their children vaccinated to "stop the spread" and "help us beat this pandemic."

On Oct. 7, while defending his vaccine mandate on health care workers, Biden claimed that vaccinated workers "are protected from COVID and cannot spread it to you."

On Sept. 9, the president spoke directly to unvaccinated Americans and said, "We’ve been patient, but our patience is wearing thin. And your refusal has cost all of us."

On Aug. 23, the president said, "the pandemic of the unvaccinated is a tragedy that is preventable."

During a July 21 CNN town hall, he said, "You’re not going to get COVID if you have these vaccinations."

On July 16, two weeks after celebrating America’s near "independence" from the coronavirus, Biden said, "The only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinated."

Biden isn’t the only one giving conflicting and inaccurate advice from the administration. On Aug. 15, Dr. Anthony Fauci told MSNBC that "vaccines prevent getting infected, prevent getting sick, prevent your hospitalization," while advocating against people forgoing the vaccine in favor of receiving monoclonal antibody treatment after infection.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-apos-apos-pandemic-unvaccinated-185341872.html

If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

The OSS psychological profile of Hitler described his use of the big lie:

His primary rules were: never allow the public to cool off; never admit a fault or wrong; never concede that there may be some good in your enemy; never leave room for alternatives; never accept blame; concentrate on one enemy at a time and blame him for everything that goes wrong; people will believe a big lie sooner than a little one; and if you repeat it frequently enough people will sooner or later believe it.


Massachusetts health officials on Tuesday reported more than 45,000 new breakthrough COVID cases over the past week, more than doubling last week's total, and 88 more deaths in people with breakthrough cases.

In the last week, 45,029 new breakthrough cases -- infections in people who have been vaccinated -- were reported, with 370 more vaccinated people hospitalized, Massachusetts Department of Public Health officials said Tuesday. It's a 122% increase in the rate of new breakthrough cases in Massachusetts -- last week saw 20,247 new COVID infections in vaccinated people.

https://www.nbcboston.com/news/coronavirus/45029-new-breakthrough-cases-in-mass-more-than-doubling-week-over-week/2604986/


And what exactly did you do in regards to being involved in the smallpox vaccine? Did you help develop  and test it? No you didn't you would have crowed about that. You were a paper pusher somewhere most likely 50 odd years ago helping the roll out of the vaccine. And to compare the small pox vaccine to the vaxx is laughable. For the simple fact the small pox vaccine actually works and prevents infection as well as stops transmission. The same can certainly not be said for the vaxx which is more like a therapeutic 

And given you are a virologist it's extremely odd you choose to completely disregard the VAERS data as the testing for the vaxxs were substandard to say the least, you know all the little pesky things like medium and long term safety data. And you seem to forget the reason why it was set up and is used in the first place, it is the safety net. And funnier than hell you rail that it contains information provided by "private medical practitioners" which slants they are not qualified. Hilarious.

And to say that the adverse reactions are comparable to the flu vaccine is a complete lie there have been more adverse events reported about the vaxx in a single year than there have been about all other vaccines for the last 30 years. And that is a fact.

But let me get back to masks. You know the mask question you failed to answer from our last go round? Here it is verbatim.

"As for masks I did see you calling them "useless" and saying "calm down no mask will save you".  And given that you'r an expert I expect that you based that response on your knowledge of all the peer reviewed large scale mask studies (surgical masks) prior to covid about the virtually negligible effect they had on stopping the flu in study after study. And no you didn't give the "saving them for health care workers" excuse at the time you stated all that, that came later.  Now the question I have for the expert such as yourself, is how is it that simple cloth masks are now proclaimed to help stop the spread of covid yet they couldn't help stop a less transmissible virus like the flu?  And lets not forget that the flu and covid are both spread via droplet transmission so the "well the masks are catching coughs and sneezes" applied to the flu studies as well. It's a very simple question."

Oh and by the way now they are saying that cloth masks don't work on Omnicron LOL. When so many vaxxed are getting sick the narrative according to the "science" has to change. Like it always does.

the revisionist history around vaccines is getting pretty extreme. let’s be VERY clear:

  • yes, they were promised to stop spread, contagion, and provide herd immunity.

  • yes, those promises were made by the same “experts” currently claiming “vaccines were never supposed to stop spread, just reduce severity.”

  • yes, they were so committed to this that they literally changed the definition of “herd immunity” to EXCLUDE natural immunity.

(of course, they then changed the definition of “vaccine” as well to make this look like less of a failure)


Yep revisionist science, if you can't get the results you want revise what you need to get what you want and forget all the things you said in the past that were completely wrong. Vaxxs so well studied they had no idea what was happening, but you can trust them right, they say it's all so completely safe. Looks like they are completely pulling it out of their arses as they go. At your expense.


And lastly anyone raise your hand if you have held or do hold a radical extremest viewpoint of putting the unvaxxed in camps. 

 Mao,Stalin,Hitler, Pol Pot ect all had low level government official tools like you that enabled them.

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Originally posted by Hazelpad Hazelpad wrote:

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply I was just a bit confused as to what had changed. 

Concerning to vaccinate or not to vaccinate I dont have an answer.  Someone living in a busy city that has seen family members die will have a very different opinion to someone living rural and never seen the dam thing wonder if it exists.  For someone who has seen it go through care homes and special needs centres will have a different attitude to those who have seen their kids test positive without so much as a sneeze.  Someone with asthma that knows what it is like not to be able to breath will differ from the healthy. Someone caring for a child with cystic fibrosis will have different view than those who have healthy children.

  Someone may not trust the origin  of the vaccine and will take the virus, others dont trust the origin of the virus and will take the vaccine.  Some dont trust either and are caught in a dilemma.

I dont.know much about human nature and I am crap at psychology so I have no answer to all that's gone on I just saw that the forum had changed.

I enjoyed the prepping not because I felt the need to hide away, prepping to me isnt about that.  Scotland may be a bit wild but we dont have ice storms or tornadoes like many who need to prep.  For me  its a hobby, like gaming, or playing tennis.  I still cant light a bloody fire, my homemade bread is still crap and my survival garden couldnt feed a family of mice never mind my family for a year.  My outdoor shelters leak or blow over, my water purifiers are full of mud and when I catch and cook outside my kids all watch me with their mcDonalds hanging out their mouths and eyebrows raised... when I tried to make natural shampoo my blonde hair turned slightly green, and my search and rescue torches have been so bright I have blinded the foxes , and woken up the neighbours from 10 miles away ( I have now learned how to turn them down),  but you know I have become quite the ninja at some stuff,  and I learned so much from this forum.  

Take care you all and thanks for the update.  I appreciate you taking the time.

Hz x




Hazelpad do you snares in your preps? Excellent way to passively hunt game using wire snares for small animals such as rabbits and squirrels all the way up to game the size of deer. Additionally if you live near a river, lake pond or stream they make fishing snares as well called yo you fishers. Both wire snares and the yo you fishers are relatively easy to set and use. Supplementing your provisions hunting passively will make your provisions last far longer.  And they are working all the time and require less calories than actively hunting. And if resupply fails or isn't going to ever be an option again might be a vital way to provide protein.

https://www.amazon.com/Mechanical-Fishers-Fishing-Package-Trigger/dp/B00ASP3YZK

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8UMqbIWK7Q

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2022 at 12:53am

But do snares catch cats? I have cats and I'd hate to accidentally catch one. I have feral cat cages set up and frequently catch my own. If we want to catch a rabbit, we shoot it.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Comments that have recently been made about the risks of COVID-19 vaccination are absolute garbage.  


Tell all that to the relatives of the UK's most high profile VAX death, That of Lisa Shaw.

She was a BBC radio presenter from the North of England, aged 44 and as we now know with no underlying health issues and slim.  She would have been unlikely to have suffered badly from the virus.  She was pro vax and urged people to go and get it.

When her turn came she lined up with the rest in her age group.... and a week later she was dead.  The BBC goes into panic mode and says the died after a "short illness".  The relatives say she died after the vax killed her.

A month or two later the UK Coroner will full access to all her medical records ruled simply that she died as a result of complications following the covid vaccination: yes the vax killed her so to her the risks were 100% and the vax was certainly not "safe".




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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2022 at 11:25am

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

But do snares catch cats? I have cats and I'd hate to accidentally catch one. I have feral cat cages set up and frequently catch my own. If we want to catch a rabbit, we shoot it.

Snares catch everything. Best to use them away from your place or any neighbors with pets. And yeah you can shoot game but that draws attention when you might not want attention and it uses up ammo that you might wanna conserve. In the event there is no resupply it makes you reconsider how you use what you have knowing you can't replace it. So you go other routes. Short term scenarios snares may not be for you and may not make sense, but long term scenarios having and using them may be the difference between a full belly and an empty one. All kinds of variables to consider.

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 07 2022 at 11:35am

The most frequent wild visitors to our land are hares. We are overrun with great big fat hares. One of our dogs is easily fast enough to catch them, but they are everywhere. I can look out of our windows and generally see 2 or 3 at any one time. We do eat them. They're delicious.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Comments that have recently been made about the risks of COVID-19 vaccination are absolute garbage.  

 [QUOTE=cn65]


Tell all that to the relatives of the UK's most high profile VAX death, That of Lisa Shaw.

She was a BBC radio presenter from the North of England, aged 44 and as we now know with no underlying health issues and slim.  She would have been unlikely to have suffered badly from the virus.  She was pro vax and urged people to go and get it.

When her turn came she lined up with the rest in her age group.... and a week later she was dead.  The BBC goes into panic mode and says the died after a "short illness".  The relatives say she died after the vax killed her.

A month or two later the UK Coroner will full access to all her medical records ruled simply that she died as a result of complications following the covid vaccination: yes the vax killed her so to her the risks were 100% and the vax was certainly not "safe".




Maddie was in the Pfizer Clinical Trials 12–15-year-olds conducted through the Gamble Program at Cincinnati Children’s Hospital. Maddie, then 12 years old, received the first dose in late December 2020 and the second dose on January 20th.

Within 24 hours of the second dose, she developed abdominal, muscle, and nerve pain that became unbearable and, over the next two-and-a-half months, she was admitted to the hospital three times, each stay a little longer than the last. She developed additional symptoms including gastroparesis, nausea and vomiting, erratic blood pressure and heart rate, memory loss, brain fog, headaches, dizziness, fainting, and seizures. At one point, Maddie was having 20 or more blackout/fainting episodes per day.

Maddie became paralyzed from the waist down. She still needs a wheelchair or walker to get around, and a feeding tube for nourishment.



"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2022 at 7:59am

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2022 at 8:46am

Then why are some countries health care systems being overwhelmed?  Seems like an uneducated opinion to me.  

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