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Who Created Isis? |
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Medclinician2013
Valued Member Joined: September 17 2013 Location: Carmel Status: Offline Points: 9020 |
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Posted: December 05 2015 at 7:37am |
It is known the the Mujahedin were created by the United States to drive the Russians out of Afghanistan. America has been arming and support groups in Syria, which were and are affiliated with terrorist organizations. The question now is did we create the current problem in Iraq which has escalated to an Islamic State intent on taking over the world? It is and has been a clear threat since it first began. By whatever name or political agenda, this group is ultra radical and is outside the realms of accepted warfare and it is unlikely can be stopped unless they are more than bombed.
Who created Isis? Medclinician - the Real News - Independent News Coverage from a new frontier in news media which has become alternative news. |
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Medclinician - not if but when - original
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95547 |
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Radical Islam is as old as Islam itself. There was the Mahdi uprising in Egypt, during the Indonesian war of independence (1945-1949) in the (former) Dutch East Indies there were also "taliban"(=students of koran).
Jihad can be seen as "missionary" and also in Cristianity "missionary"sometimes was done by the sword. IS is an outcome of western invasion of Iraq and frustrated former Iraq-Army generals who lost their jobs and perspective. (Iraq was supported by the west after the Islamic Revolution in Iran 1979, a lot of Iraq military studied in the west). IS grew with influx from Europe, Chechens from the Caucasus (Russian nationality) and Uyghur-Chines muslims.
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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onefluover
Admin Group Joined: April 21 2013 Location: Death Valleyish Status: Offline Points: 20151 |
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As I understand or see it, ISIS (-or Islamic Caliphate. There is no IS-), was created by Obama and Hillary Clinton et al. The Obama/Hillary Bengazi cover up was a gun running network funneling pilfered Egyptian weapons to the newly created wannabe Islamic Caliphate that grew out of the Iraq vacuum created by the Leftist Obama Admin et al's insistence on the US vacating Iraq. To break if down simply, leftist America created this monster. That's how I see it in a nutshell.
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"And then there were none."
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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i work with a devote Musim he says that 9/11 was a plot by the Jews and Americans,he says its ok to
throw people off building for being homosexual,its ok to stone poople for adutery ,and to chop off hands for theft,he says America is the evil of the world, when i counter all he says ,i think i am a target for death.... GUESS WHAT!!!!! I WILL NEVER NEVER BACK DOWN or change to think any of the above is right wake up world they living amongst us
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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please dont call them IS they are not a State just a bunch of thugs,
DAESH is there name and we will DAESH DAESH (daesh arabic is the word for trample)
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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BIRD FLU THE LOT OF THEM..........
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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Does not matter how these thugs and murderers got their name they are here in the U.S. So what I said in another thread holds true...Gun Up, Get your Concealed Carry License, and purchase more ammo.
If you are not familiar with how to Conceal Carry and use your gun in that way...get lessons from people who know. Terrorists are among us and Obama and or Hillary are going to let thousands more in so you all better get ready, I am! |
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CRS, DrPH
Expert Level Adviser Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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DAESH has its origins in "Al Qaeda in Iraq." They are Sunni who seek to wipe out Shiite Islam, and are largely organized and run by former cohorts of Sadaam Hussein and the Iraqi Baathist party.
Sadaam's boys want their power back, and they seek to do it through a dishonest campaign mixing religion with political ambition. We should be concerned since there were tons (yep, tons) of nerve gas in Syria, and it only takes a tiny drop of VX to kill a person. Nothing good about this situation, I wish Obama had not called them the "junior varsity," that was a gross miscalculation. Be safe, always know your exits when you are inside, and avoid large gatherings when you can.
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CRS, DrPH
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Medclinician
V.I.P. Member Valued Member Since 2006 Joined: July 08 2009 Status: Offline Points: 23322 |
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It is a matter of honest and realistic perspective Carbon20. Both Christianity and Islam have advocated Holy Wars for hundreds of years. The Western world is shocked by medieval practices of punishment and Muslims are shocked by a complete collapse of what they feel is morality in dress and sexual behavior. The conflict happens when you mix extremists in the same country or they wish to extend that beyond their country to yours. Really no surprises here. Basically both Christianity and Islam want to take over the world and convert everyone to their faith. When this desire is backed with swords, WMD, or nuclear bombs then we are on the verge of a Holy War. There has been a real lack of understanding of the basic thinking and perception of cultures outside of the U.S. within the U.S. After decades of the White Man's Burden, we have become divided. Many Americans cannot think multiracial much less perceive how non-action is a sign of weakness and dangerous. As there are hints of the possibility of a Muslim president, this would take us far into realms we have not even begun to perceive. The events in San Bernardino, Ca. are only a prelude. The conflict between the Israelis and Muslims or at least Palestine has been going on for 3,000 years. Do we want it in America? Each person is entitled to their beliefs and they don't have to like anyone - nice or not nice. Eventually the line will be drawn in the dirt on American soil instead of in the sands of Iraq - on that day - well - I am not looking forward to it at all. I know for certain some will defend their homes and families if they have lost faith in their country to do it. That is scary. Medclinician |
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"not if but when" the original Medclinician
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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I beg to differ, Med. I am neither Islamic nor Christian, so hopefully I can offer a fairly unbiased opinion.
Both have dark passages in their holy books. Recently an experiment was tried on England's streets where passages from Leviticus were passed off as passages from the Koran. No one noticed and there were many anti-Islamic comments made before people realized. But they are not the same! Jesus preached love and the interpretation of all those old laws through love. This transforms "an eye for an eye" into "turn the other cheek" Mohammed preached obedience. This re-enforces the rigidity of the laws and leaves no place for mercy, forgiveness, understanding or interpretation. I agree you on the bit about the line in the dirt though. I only wish we were both wrong.
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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WillobyBrat
Admin Group Joined: January 21 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 2080 |
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Well, please or 'fend (and I will probably be thrown off after this) I will put my pennyworth in. Christianity, Judaeism, Islam and all most all of the forms of Paganism came from the Middle East from the same root: a hotchpotch of half-remembered (and conveniently altered by authorities) of the Sumarian polytheistic faith. I'm going to have a go at them all equally.
Start with my own religion which is the least altered version of a particular cult that worshiped Ki and Enki (Mother and Father), Innana (scientist and warrior Goddess) and Enlil (the God who gave music, polished gemstones, and much more to humanity - later mistranslated as the Devil in Christianity). They ruled the oldest and greatest of empires, from which all modern civilization is derived. They themselves got in this position by being paragons of virtue and never raising a hand against another (sarcasm!). The Jewish faith holds Joshua as a great hero. He committed genocide on 8 nation states even their pets and farm animals were slaughtered. Oops! Christians got so bad and massacred so many non-Christians that they had to have a little get together and form a council to stop it happening. They went on to slaughter 6 million pagans after that but of course this did not count as they were doing God's will. The Hindus and the Muslims were so good at macassaring each other (because the Muslims were trying to steal India) the intelligent ones from both sides got together and formed the Sikhs. The Muslims just kill any unbelievers because the Koran tells them to. So far the Wiccans have not macassared anyone, but they are very young - give them time. For myself, if any person in the name of any God lays a hand on my friends or family, I reserve the right to send him to meet said God in whatever version of heaven he believes in. Finally: Islam has killed a distant cousin of mine in the 9/11 attacks, a close Jewish friend in Israel and have put many of my black and Indian friends at increased risk of being attacked through being mistaken for Muslims. For this reason I take the attitude that we should kill them all and let God sort it out. As far as the sneaky, untrustworthy Turks are concerned, I hope the are never allowed into the EU and I am horrified they got into NATO. As an afterthought: I hope Russia Nukes them till they glow in the dark and then we can all stand around and shoot the lights out. That also is for a personal reason.
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I like Ike
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onefluover
Admin Group Joined: April 21 2013 Location: Death Valleyish Status: Offline Points: 20151 |
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"And then there were none."
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95547 |
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In the beginning there were very few humans on this planet, if they got tired of each other they could escape. With more population war came first for huntinggrounds than for land for agriculture.
With more population the need to organize increased. That also gave some people time to think and start asking questions. What is the purpose of it all, what are we doing here, were do we come from. Religion is trying to an answer to that kind of questions. In my opinion religion is part of a culture and tells something about the history of those who follow a religion. Islam came from the dessert. Muhammed had a hard life being kicked out when he started preaching in the name of his god. Christianity is a bit older and is severly influenced by the Romans and older religions. But Islam, Jewish religion and Christianity are not different in the basics what their "holy book" is concerned. Fanatics can be found under all humans and I am afraid that most humans can do insane things under insane circumstances. IS is in the first place a problem for muslims. When the "West" gets under attack that "West"has to react. But when you react always think first. |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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WillobyBrat
Admin Group Joined: January 21 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 2080 |
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Hey, Dutch Josh and Onefluover: It looks to me like the hand American politicians have been dealt needs Trumping!
God! I don't believe I said anything that corny.
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I like Ike
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Satori
Valued Member Joined: June 03 2013 Status: Offline Points: 28655 |
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A Warning To The West: A Voice From The Heart Of The Islamic World
http://nocompulsion.com/a-warning-to-the-west-a-voice-from-the-heart-of-the-islamic-world/ |
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95547 |
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https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/07/30/isis-j30.html
Crucially as far as the major powers are concerned, ISIS has captured much of the region’s strategic oil industry. It is also seizing large amounts of US weaponry abandoned in the country after the withdrawal from Iraq three years ago, including 1,500 Humvees, 4,000 PKC machineguns, and 52 M198 155-millimeter howitzers. This heavy artillery gives them the capability to bombard Iraqi cities, including potentially Baghdad, threatening Western commercial interests. The fact remains, however, that the US, the major European powers, and their regional allies all previously lent financial, military and political support to ISIS and similar groups, which have “Made in the USA” stamped all over them. They have, until now, played a significant part in Washington’s efforts to overthrow the regime of President Bashar al-Assad in Syria, as part of a broader effort to gain control of the region’s vast energy resources and transit routes. ISIS is distinguished by its religious fanaticism, commitment to capitalism, and virulent anti-communism. Like the Taliban in Afghanistan and similar groups in Somalia, Nigeria and elsewhere, it uses terror to put pressure on the imperialist powers and force them to make some accommodation with it as a regional power centre. ISIS is an offshoot of Al Qaeda, the terrorist Islamic group previously headed by Osama bin Laden, the son of the wealthy owner of a construction company with close links to the House of Saud. Al Qaeda was formed in the late 1980s in Afghanistan with support from the CIA, which backed the mujahedin as part of its covert war that began in 1979 against the pro-Soviet regime in Kabul. Over a ten-year period, the US gave the mujahedin around $5 billion in weaponry and aid to recruit and train local forces. Saudi Arabia and Pakistan promoted the mujahedin, encouraging volunteers from the Arab and Islamic countries, such as bin Laden. Al Qaeda was by no means the only Islamic fundamentalist group supported by Washington and its allies in a struggle for geopolitical influence against regimes and movements allied to Russia. Israel fostered Hamas, the offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, as a counterweight to Yasser Arafat’s Palestine Liberation Organisation. ISIS, formed in 2004, later incorporated a number of Sunni insurgent factions in Iraq. It was responsible for three terrorist bombings of hotels in Amman, Jordan in 2005, but remained a small group until the demonstrations that began in Dera’a in southern Syria in March 2011. The Western powers, flush with success after organising an Islamist insurgency in Benghazi in order to justify NATO’s overthrow of Muammar Gaddafi in Libya, thought they could use similar forces to overthrow Assad in Syria, whose regime draws its main base of support from the Alawite sect, a Shi’a offshoot, and Sunni businessmen. For three years, the US, along with the Gulf states and Turkey, poured billions into “opposition” groups, supposedly to unnamed “moderates,” but in reality to Al Qaeda-linked Sunni groups such as al-Nusra and ISIS to spearhead a sectarian war. The US, Turkey and Jordan have operated a base in Jordan where US instructors trained dozens of ISIS members. In an article last year, the New York Times confirmed that the CIA assisted Arab governments and Turkey by airlifting weaponry to these groups in Jordan and Turkey. The Guardian reported last March that British and French instructors were also involved. Other ISIS members were trained near Incirlik Air Base near Adana, Turkey, where US forces are based. After completing their training, they went to Syria and later Iraq. Following the overthrow of the Gaddafi regime, the CIA used the US consulate in Benghazi as a transit base for weaponry, Islamist fighters and cash to Syria, until it was attacked on September 11, 2012 by Islamist militias in a “blowback” operation that killed the US ambassador and three consular staffers. As opposition grew to Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s Shi’ite-dominated government, installed by Washington, which has launched a reign of terror against Iraq’s minority Sunni population, the US and Saudi-sponsored civil war in Syria spilled over into Iraq. ISIS’s seemingly rapid advance must have been well prepared by its allies in the region, Saudi Arabia and Israel. Israel carries out constant surveillance of Syria from the Golan Heights, from where it has launched attacks on Syria, and provided intelligence information and a field hospital for the “rebels.” Israeli figures, including former Israeli ambassador to Washington Michael Oren and Amos Gilad, director of the Defence Ministry’s policy and political-military relations department, have spoken openly of Tel Aviv’s working relations with the Saudis. |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95547 |
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http://www.thehindu.com/news/international/world/us-seeks-to-avoid-is-prophecy/article7962584.ece?ref=topnavwidget&utm_source=topnavdd&utm_medium=topnavdropdownwidget&utm_campaign=topnavdropdown
As the debate on how best to contain the Islamic State continues to rage in Western capitals, the militants themselves have made one point patently clear: They want the U.S. and its allies to be dragged into a ground war. In fact, when the U.S. first invaded Iraq, one of the most enthusiastic proponents of the move was the man who founded the terrorist cell that would one day become the IS, Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. He excitedly called the Americans’ 2003 intervention “the Blessed Invasion”. His reaction — ignored by some, and dismissed as rhetoric by others — points to one of the core beliefs motivating the terrorist group now holding large stretches of Iraq and Syria: the group bases its ideology on prophetic texts stating that Islam will be victorious after an apocalyptic battle to be set off once Western armies come to the region. Should that invasion happen, the IS would not only be able to declare its prophecy fulfilled, but could also turn the occurrence into a new recruiting drive at the very moment when the terror group appears to be losing volunteers. It is partly that theory that President Barack Obama referred to in his speech on Sunday, when he said the U.S. should pursue a “sustainable victory” that involves airstrikes and supports local forces battling the IS rather than sending a new generation of American soldiers into a ground offensive. “I have said it repeatedly: Because of these prophecies, going in on the ground would be the worst trap to fall into. They want troops on the ground. Because they have already envisioned it,” said Jean-Pierre Filiu, a professor of Middle East Studies at Sciences Po in Paris, and the author of Apocalypse in Islam, one of the main scholarly texts exploring the scripture that the militants base their ideology on. The IS’s propaganda is rife with references to apocalyptic prophecy about the last great battle that sets the stage for the end times. The specific scripture they are referring to describes a battle in Dabiq as well as al-Amaq, small towns that still exist in northern Syria. The countdown to the apocalypse begins once the “Romans” — a term that militants have now conveniently expanded to include Americans and their allies — set foot in Dabiq. Last year, when IS militants beheaded American hostage Peter Kassig, a former U.S. Army Ranger, they made sure to do it in Dabiq. “Here we are, burying the first American crusader in Dabiq, eagerly waiting for the remainder of your armies to arrive,” the executioner announced. Dabiq is now the name of the IS’s monthly online magazine. Meanwhile, Amaq is the name the militants have chosen for their semi-official news agency. How to undo IS is a matter of intense debate. As the U.S. prepares for a general election, Republican contenders are pushing for a ground invasion, with Sen. Ted Cruz vowing to “carpet-bomb them into oblivion”. Regardless of a ground intervention’s potential to succeed, some veteran analysts caution that the act of invasion would play handily into the group’s prophetic vision. “To break the dynamic, you have to debunk the prophecy,” Filiu said. “You need to do so via a military defeat, like taking over Raqqa. But it needs to be by local forces — by Sunni Arabs.” That so far has been the approach of the Obama administration, which has armed as well as provided air support to a number of militias in northern Iraq and Syria, hoping to give a local veneer to the tip of the sword. — New York Times News Service |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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onefluover
Admin Group Joined: April 21 2013 Location: Death Valleyish Status: Offline Points: 20151 |
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Homeland Security Chairman Michael McCaul: Hillary Clinton ‘Responsible’ for Islamic State 9 Dec 2015 Homeland Security Chairman Rep. Michael McCaul (R-TX)63% blames President Obama and former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton for the rise of the Islamic State. “I would say that she and the president are responsible for ISIS rearing its ugly head,” McCaul said, during a Christian Science Monitor breakfast with reporters in Washington D.C. this morning. “I think Mrs. Clinton has a lot of weaknesses because she was the architect of the Obama administration’s foreign policy,” McCaul said, referring to her role as Secretary of State. He argued that a lack of a status of forces agreement in Iraq was mainly responsible for the security implosion in that country, pointing out that Clinton only visited Baghdad one time while serving as Secretary of State. http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/12/09/homeland-security-chairman-michael-mccaul-hillary-clinton-responsible-islamic-state/ |
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"And then there were none."
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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I AM AN ATHIST ,we as a species are 89.7 %the same as our nearest relative the
Chipanzee and the Benobo, every mammal on the planet reproduces in the same way,all babies are born the same way we all suckle our young the same way , can someone tell me the differance ????? i cant see one apart from the fact we wage war on our own !!!!!!!
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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onefluover
Admin Group Joined: April 21 2013 Location: Death Valleyish Status: Offline Points: 20151 |
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I don't know if war taught us the ability to reason or if reasoning gave us the ability to wage war but what seperates man from the animal is the ability to reason. ICIL lacks that ability. Otherwise what awaits them could be prevented.
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"And then there were none."
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Technophobe
Assistant Admin Joined: January 16 2014 Location: Scotland Status: Offline Points: 88450 |
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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving. |
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carbon20
Moderator Joined: April 08 2006 Location: West Australia Status: Offline Points: 65816 |
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LOL @technophobe.....i agree
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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖
Marcus Aurelius |
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95547 |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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CRS, DrPH
Expert Level Adviser Joined: January 20 2014 Location: Arizona Status: Offline Points: 26660 |
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This is a useful quiz on ISIL.
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CRS, DrPH
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95547 |
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Christian Science Monitor is willing to face some facts; they also published facts about the funding of Hitler in the twenties and thirties. From Henry Ford, the Bush-clan to most "royals" in Europe, oil companies etc paid Hitler. You can only learn from mistakes when you are willing to face them. Finding the facts is almost impossible.
By the way, the only 2 wrong answers I got in this quiz where about the IS-"leader"Bagdadi. But there is a lot of speculation about this man as well. The funding of IS via oil trade goes via Kurdish groups and Turkey but that oil is bought all over the world (eventhough the recieving countries can know that it is funding IS) France did buy IS oil. Gulf states and Turkey are dealing with IS as a "charity". Israel is providing health care, according to some stories Israel special forces are leading some IS-units to weaken enemy states. Another big question is the spread of IS to Afghanistan, Libya. Boko Haram in Nigeria(region also neighboorstates now have to deal with IS/Boko Haram) did join IS. Fighters and weapons are transported from Iraq and Syria to Afghanistan and Libya by who ? Turkey ? NATO ? Also Russian and Chines jihadi's showing up in Syria close to the Turkish border-a possible "safe zone" (for refugees but de facto also for IS) raises questions about how they did get there. A possibility could be that several countries did want to get rid of "problem-groups" but helping to get them to Syria and than start fighting them there does not sound credible to me.
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95547 |
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http://www.veteranstoday.com/2015/12/14/texas-plumber-sues-car-dealer-after-truck-appears-in-syrian-militant-video/
A Texas plumber whose company pickup truck, complete with logo and contact information, appeared in a photograph with jihadists in Syria has sued the dealer who purchased his vehicle, saying the photo has hurt his business and drawn death threats. Mark Oberholtzer, the owner of Mark-1 Plumbing of Texas City, sold the pickup in October 2013 to a Ford dealership in Houston. Last year, the vehicle appeared in a photograph with an Islamic militant manning an anti-aircraft gun mounted on the truck’s bed. Clearly visible in the photo, on the door of the truck, is the name and phone number of Oberholtzer’s business. |
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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onefluover
Admin Group Joined: April 21 2013 Location: Death Valleyish Status: Offline Points: 20151 |
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Two wrong. Two wild guesses, one correct, one incorrect, so really three wrong. Not bad though for a tattoo artist. |
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"And then there were none."
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Dutch Josh
Adviser Group Joined: May 01 2013 Location: Arnhem-Netherla Status: Offline Points: 95547 |
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on the Texas plumber who did see his old pick-up being used by IS-linked groups: http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-12-15/stunning-explanation-how-infamous-ford-f250-truck-ended-isis-hands
some questions: And while NATO-member Turkey supplying ISIS with funding, supplies, weapons or equipment is hardly groundbreaking news, the Ford "clue" poses new and important questions, such as:
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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein |
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