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Wisconsin Supreme Court overrides stay home order

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Wisconsin Supreme Court overrides stay home order
    Posted: May 13 2020 at 7:42pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 13 2020 at 11:36pm

Originally posted by Pixie Pixie wrote:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/coronavirus-wisconsin-supreme-court-stay-at-home-order-tony-evers-covid-19-a9513351.html

Thanks, I'm going to sit back and watch their caseload soar.  Wisconsin is not a very large/sophisticated state, so they will overrun their ICU capacity quickly.  

Sadly, they have large Native Indian tribal communities, and those will be hammered, as will the African American communities of places like Milwaukee.

Wisconsin used to be a nice place, no longer.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 5:11am

Is it possible to Sue the supreme court? 

When does Civil rights out weigh 

Human rights of survival ?

IE,"the needs of the many out weigh the need of the few"

(star trek, what an edukation)

Thanks Spock....😉

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 7:01am

Have the right to a gun, except not to use it for murder.

Have the right to hold a driving licence, except not to drive on the pavements outside the school at 90mph.

Have the right to freedom to roam, except when there is a pandemic.


For God's sake!  It's not rocket science!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 7:10am

How long was the lockdown supposed to last?   Waiting till a vaccine was NOT an option.   So if you can't wait that long.... a lockdown only slows things down and prolongs the misery.   It does not prevent the spread.   

The rational that we "can't run out of ventilators" is a fallacy.   Two reasons....  Even in the worst hit areas we didn't run out at the peak.   Secondly vents kill people with covid, they don't help.

The needs of the many, are every citizen of the state that needs to go back to work.   The needs of the few, are the tiny subset of the population that is actually vulnerable to this infection.  Figure out a way to protect the vulnerable without hurting the vast majority.

There are treatment protocols that are relatively effective,  however it is has become so politicized and the CDC is so cocksure of their own recommendations, effective treatments are not seeing the light of day.

If you look very closely at the data, the infection rates almost everywhere started going down BEFORE the lock down started.   The curve on the R0 chart of states with lockdowns, very closely matches the curve of Sweden who didn't lock down.

I predict that we will see a very moderate spike in some very densely populated areas, but most of the state will do just fine.  Going into summer right now was the right time to do this.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 10:08am

Originally posted by DeepThinker DeepThinker wrote:

How long was the lockdown supposed to last?   Waiting till a vaccine was NOT an option.   So if you can't wait that long.... a lockdown only slows things down and prolongs the misery.   It does not prevent the spread.   

Not true....we didn't have a vaccine for SARS in 2003, but though very aggressive isolation of cases, contact tracing and lockdowns in Hong Kong and Canada, we drove that virus out of existence.  I'd rather be miserable than dead.

The rational that we "can't run out of ventilators" is a fallacy.   Two reasons....  Even in the worst hit areas we didn't run out at the peak.   Secondly vents kill people with covid, they don't help.

Errrr....there is so much wrong with your statement that it is hard to start refuting it.  First of all, we haven't had a peak as a society, just a pause....the initial peak will be followed by subsequent peaks, likened to a "mountain range" by experts.  As bad as the first wave was, it is likely to be worse without social isolation. 

The needs of the many, are every citizen of the state that needs to go back to work.   The needs of the few, are the tiny subset of the population that is actually vulnerable to this infection.  Figure out a way to protect the vulnerable without hurting the vast majority.

OK, how will you induce the cautious to go back into social settings like bars and restaurants?  I don't care to catch a potentially lethal virus for a steak dinner, no matter how delicious.  How many will want to go out and make big-ticket investments in autos and new houses?  How will you induce the public to fly again, to go to resorts, hotels etc.?  Re-opening the economy doesn't mean that this will be successful if the buying public stays home. 

There are treatment protocols that are relatively effective,  however it is has become so politicized and the CDC is so cocksure of their own recommendations, effective treatments are not seeing the light of day.

Name one, besides supportive care in an ICU.  I can't think of one. 

If you look very closely at the data, the infection rates almost everywhere started going down BEFORE the lock down started.   The curve on the R0 chart of states with lockdowns, very closely matches the curve of Sweden who didn't lock down.

Ah, Sweden...leading Scandinavia in cases and deaths.  The jury is out on the success of their strategy.  Also, Swedes tend to listen to the government and followed voluntary isolation, they didn't pick up arms and swarm to state capitals to protest. 

I predict that we will see a very moderate spike in some very densely populated areas, but most of the state will do just fine.  Going into summer right now was the right time to do this. Cases are already jumping in rural states that, falsely, thought they are largely immune.  

http://homegrowniowan.com/fastest-increases-in-covid-19-mostly-in-counties-where-iowa-gov-reynolds-relaxed-restrictions/?fbclid=IwAR1Ub9eZu_vzOOXQ0uWFrWD_sL23BFtfjo3Dt_2TLfr-Vc0-gwH01jMcTbA

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Just1voice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 9:16pm

I live in Wisconsin and I am ashamed to say that because the first ones to open up (I fell to soon) are bars, spa's and massage parlor's. That said a lot about what is more important to most people in Wisconsin.   And from what I have seen on tv and heard, they are packed with no PPE. I do not care if they get it but their family and friends will get it from them. Guess that drink is more important to them. I also think that if you get it and can be traced back to a business. That business should be held responsible if they were not taking all steps to prevent it.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote kaye kaye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 10:08pm

I didn't get to stay home, I had to work.  I don't see how bars and spas will be able to be safe.  

keep the joy
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kaye kaye Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 14 2020 at 10:13pm

Originally posted by DeepThinker DeepThinker wrote:

How long was the lockdown supposed to last?   Waiting till a vaccine was NOT an option.   So if you can't wait that long.... a lockdown only slows things down and prolongs the misery.   It does not prevent the spread.   

The rational that we "can't run out of ventilators" is a fallacy.   Two reasons....  Even in the worst hit areas we didn't run out at the peak.   Secondly vents kill people with covid, they don't help.

The needs of the many, are every citizen of the state that needs to go back to work.   The needs of the few, are the tiny subset of the population that is actually vulnerable to this infection.  Figure out a way to protect the vulnerable without hurting the vast majority.

There are treatment protocols that are relatively effective,  however it is has become so politicized and the CDC is so cocksure of their own recommendations, effective treatments are not seeing the light of day.

If you look very closely at the data, the infection rates almost everywhere started going down BEFORE the lock down started.   The curve on the R0 chart of states with lockdowns, very closely matches the curve of Sweden who didn't lock down.

I predict that we will see a very moderate spike in some very densely populated areas, but most of the state will do just fine.  Going into summer right now was the right time to do this.

From the article they have no time frame for ever opening,  No plans.  I can see why people were sick of the tyrants.

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Look people will have to make decisions and some of those decisions will be bad and some will die. BUT, 80% of people will be just fine getting this virus everyone seems to keep forgetting this fact.  Do we shut down the whole country for this smaller percentage of people.  

I am old but I remember what it is like to be without money and not sure how you are going to pay the rent or food...I worked three jobs in my late 20 s and early 30s and know what it is to have little money.  IT IS SCARY!   So I say open up and we take th consequences because 80% of people will be ok.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 12:56am

Originally posted by Just1voice Just1voice wrote:

I live in Wisconsin and I am ashamed to say that because the first ones to open up (I fell to soon) are bars, spa's and massage parlor's. That said a lot about what is more important to most people in Wisconsin.   And from what I have seen on tv and heard, they are packed with no PPE. I do not care if they get it but their family and friends will get it from them. Guess that drink is more important to them. I also think that if you get it and can be traced back to a business. That business should be held responsible if they were not taking all steps to prevent it.  

Thanks!  I have worked all over Wisconsin, from Monroe to Pulaski to Algoma, and I know the WI bar mentality very well!  Make mine New Glarus Spotted Cow!!  

Given that, you are correct - as we are now seeing in other countries, relaxing distancing and opening bars is the quickest way to re-ignite a new wave of disease. 

https://asia.nikkei.com/Spotlight/Coronavirus/South-Korea-tests-35-000-people-linked-to-club-coronavirus-cluster

SEOUL -- South Korea is aggressively testing and tracing thousands of people who went to nightclubs in central Seoul, in a bid to prevent an explosion of infections from a new coronavirus cluster.

Health authorities said Wednesday they were confirming the identity of the clubbers in the nightlife district of Itaewon between April 24 and May 6. They are reviewing guest books and credit-card payments at venues, and asking telecom companies to provide location information of people who are suspected of being infected.

The authorities, with the backing of of 8,600 police officers, are also trying identify people from CCTV footage in the clubs.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 15 2020 at 2:36am




I do hope I'm wrong,

And all goes well ,

I do think people are underestimating the damage this virus could do, not only in the CFR,but in on going medical conditions ,

I fully understand the economic situation,but just say  this was a shooting war,im sure the government would find the funds to support the people....

For a good while, at least till it's under some sort of control

Well fingers crossed

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (3) Thanks(3)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 16 2020 at 10:25am

On the bright side, nice of Wisconsin to take one for the team, so the rest of us can see what happens when you put your perceived right to hang out with your drinking buddies or get a freaking haircut over the wider population's health and well being.

It's got nothing to do with tyranny - anyone that has spent any amount of time prepping and seriously researching pandemics scenarios knew this would happen, because lockdowns are all we have without a vaccine. And forget herd immunity - at the current rate of infection it'll take as long as five years to get to 60-70% of the population having caught it (although admittedly the administration is working on speeding up that process). We're in for the long haul, and the economy is screwed whichever way you look at it. At this point, everyone might want to start reading John Steinbeck novels to get up to speed because it's going to get ugly.

Welcome to the pandemic. Normal service will resume...maybe.






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Yup, yes and absolutely.  Thanks for addressing the elephant in the room, JacksDad.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 7:54am

Originally posted by jacksdad jacksdad wrote:

On the bright side, nice of Wisconsin to take one for the team, so the rest of us can see what happens when you put your perceived right to hang out with your drinking buddies or get a freaking haircut over the wider population's health and well being.

It's got nothing to do with tyranny - anyone that has spent any amount of time prepping and seriously researching pandemics scenarios knew this would happen, because lockdowns are all we have without a vaccine. And forget herd immunity - at the current rate of infection it'll take as long as five years to get to 60-70% of the population having caught it (although admittedly the administration is working on speeding up that process). We're in for the long haul, and the economy is screwed whichever way you look at it. At this point, everyone might want to start reading John Steinbeck novels to get up to speed because it's going to get ugly.

Welcome to the pandemic. Normal service will resume...maybe.

Good to hear from you, JD!  I agree, WI is serving as what we epidemiologists call a "natural experiment."  

I've lived in WI, worked in every corner of the state, and those folks love their suds!  (My favorite is "New Glarus Spotted Cow").  It is summer time up there, so the bars on the lakes and the supper-clubs are all humming.  Folks are fishing, drinking, screwing etc.  

Let's see what the reports will be.  WI has a dearth of advanced hospitals and few ICU beds, so this may be the balloon going up.   This is interesting to track:

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2020/05/07/as-states-reopen-covid-19-is-spreading-into-even-more-trump-counties/

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 9:45am

Remember when Ebola broke out in Africa, and we marveled at the stupidity of people that ignored the science and continued to wash the bodies of their relatives?



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 11:40am

You can't fix stupid.  So let people out and do what they want...if they die so be it.  You people seem to think you or the government can tell other people how to live.  They stayed home long enough to build Vents and PPE.  Now it is time to let people make money and pay their bills.   Yes some will die but we all know that going in so stay home if you don't want to get Covid.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 4:47pm

If you want to leave off your seatbelt, OK, but don't neglect to repair your car's breaks.

If you want to sample illegal chemicals, OK, but don't spread them around the canteen.

It is your life to risk with some choices, but this risks others too.  Stupid and callous!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 7:45pm

If the others are also out everyone is taking the same risk.   You may call that stupid and callous but I call that freedom to make your own decisions.  You can't get exposed unless you are out there too.  So your logic does not work Techno.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 10:17pm

Protesters choosing to ignore everything our public health experts are telling us will cost lives, young and old. And demanding the right to congregate in large numbers and refusing to wear masks in a global health emergency is childish at best, and will only result in more lockdowns. I wear full PPE all day at work and have my temperature checked multiple times, and I have absolutely no problem with that, because to do any less is irresponsible, selfish and distespectful of those I come into contact with. Sorry, but these idiots are going to kill people while they're thinking of themselves, and in my eyes that's unacceptable behavior from an adult.



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Just1voice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 17 2020 at 10:26pm

That is not true FluMom. The logic is there. A family member or friend goes out and you do not know about it, he or she can bring it right into your home that you never left.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 12:22am

Look they opened beaches and tons of people when with no protection, YES PEOPLE ARE STUPID!   But this is a "Free" Country and people still need to pay bills so they need to work.  Now that being said they don't need to go to the beach and not use good sense but that is a free society.

Unless you all want to live under Marshall Law or Communism where they tell you what you can and can not do then people in a free society will do dumb things and no one can stop them.

It would be better if government would convince people to use masks, social distance and wash their hands rather then keeping people in lock down which is now not going to keep working.  People will bring Covid  home to family and if you have friends over oh well that is YOUR fault.  Family I would hope take care not to expose loved ones but some do not care.  My son is out working and would love to come home to see me but stays away for my safety.  People have to use common sense!!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 4:13am

Not necessarily.  Few have any control of their household members.  None have control of the Postman or Doctor.  Besides, if you can keep family members inside, that argument works even better in a wider setting and then in a more fair and effective way.

Those who have to go out (farmers, police, post, medical staff, utility providers) should also be protected.  FOR GOD'S SAKE THEIR WORK PROTECTS YOU!  SHOW THEM THE SAME COURTESY!!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote FluMom Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 10:03am

Techno...how do you pay your bills?  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 18 2020 at 11:03am

Pension - but that is a very personal question, FluMom.  I would be (hopefully) excused for not chosing to reply.  I do not answer that question in surveys.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Just1voice Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 3:26am

The hole thing in a nut shell is most people are selfish. They only think of themselves. God bless you for working and doing what needs to be done. But to go out and party or drink, putting yourself and others at risk is very selfish thinking they or so good they do not need to do what is right. Just what suits them.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 20 2020 at 5:53am

Originally posted by Just1voice Just1voice wrote:

The hole thing in a nut shell is most people are selfish. They only think of themselves. God bless you for working and doing what needs to be done. But to go out and party or drink, putting yourself and others at risk is very selfish thinking they or so good they do not need to do what is right. Just what suits them.

I could not agree more!  I really couldn't.  Absolutely, precicely, exactly agreed.  I could add, those who must work, or the public: starve, die, descend into anarchy, deserve as much protection as the 'good behaviour of the rest of us' can give them.

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