Click to Translate to English Click to Translate to French  Click to Translate to Spanish  Click to Translate to German  Click to Translate to Italian  Click to Translate to Japanese  Click to Translate to Chinese Simplified  Click to Translate to Korean  Click to Translate to Arabic  Click to Translate to Russian  Click to Translate to Portuguese  Click to Translate to Myanmar (Burmese)

PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
123456
Forum Home Forum Home > Main Forums > General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - World Gone Crazy
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

World Gone Crazy

 Post Reply Post Reply
Author
Message
cobber View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: August 13 2014
Status: Offline
Points: 5165
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cobber Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: World Gone Crazy
    Posted: August 12 2021 at 7:31pm

Hi Folks, it seems that Covid has become the witch hunt of our times. Mass hysteria. A world gone crazy...  Lets discuss  


Facts: 

99.97% survival rate, and getting less deadly. Now not much worse than the flu. For people under 50. Covid is less deadly than a flu.

I called it a powderpuff from the very beginning (March 2020) and stated the IFR to be 0.03%. Seems my numbers were accurate. Believe it or not. Its actually a very easy to calculate.  Virologists one other forums were getting similar results at the time.

HOWEVER... at the same time. Alarmist statistics were being pumped into the media. I think the worst i heard was from Reuters saying Italy at 16% death rate. I cant find the head line now, but i remember it was pushed hard and people lost their minds over it. Here's a quick example from Aljazeera they state 9%.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/3/24/why-is-italys-coronavirus-fatality-rate-so-high


I dont want to push this into debate about numbers and statistics and arguing over CFR vs IFR etc. The main point i make is this:

The powers that be, The WHO and CDC etc were fully aware of IFR at that time and they let the public persist with this crazy narrative. No one person in the media was talking facts. They all ran with the hysterical case numbers. They let the public be alarmed. This alarm has not died down.  If anything it has gotten worse.


I would like you guys to watch a video about mass hysteria and make some comments afterwards...  Note: There's some guff about totalitarianism don't focus on this. More focus on the hysteria and where we are at. Dose anyone see the parallels?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09maaUaRT4M








Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 22980
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 12 2021 at 11:18pm

Cobber I totally agree with you. The whole has gone mad and half of them have been brainwashed. 

I"ll start this off with this that I read today. 

https://vaccineimpact.com/2021/board-certified-occupational-therapist-whistleblower-more-patients-are-dying-from-the-vaccine-than-from-covid/

I'll also add that in our national newspaper today, the NZ government has said that they are not worried about children catching Covid, unlike the rest of the world. 

https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/126063294/covid19-nz-what-we-know-about-children-and-the-delta-variant

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 1:07am






More people dying from the vaccine.....

What a LOAD OF CRAP....!!!!!

And it's one person say that about kids in NZ not the government....



Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 1:30am

Health systems collapsing all over the world and you believe in this crap.....

Your right ....

CANT FIX STUPID......

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 1:32am
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
EdwinSm, View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator


Joined: April 03 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 23140
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 1:40am

I remember a similar graph from early on in the pandemic designed to down play the seriousness of this pandemic.  It is interesting how many places this outbreak has moved up if one just considers the Official totals.  If one includes estimates for excess deaths then a number of 20 million deaths seems a reasonable estimate for fatalities so far.

In honour of the first poster the graphic designer made everything seem like a colourful powder puff!

 

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 1:48am

NPR: Mississippi's Hospital System Could Collapse Within 10 Days Under COVID's Strain.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027103023/florida-mississippi-arkansas-hospitals-overwhelmed-covid-19-delta?ft=nprml&f=1001

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 1:48am

NPR: 2 Days Into The School Year, A Florida District Asked 440 Students To Quarantine.

https://www.npr.org/2021/08/12/1027222426/palm-beach-florida-school-district-440-students-quarantine-covid?ft=nprml&f=1001

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 1:49am
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 1:50am

The Associated Press: Olympics now ended, Japan races to vaccinate as virus surges.

https://apnews.com/8b48db716e4c0cdd132822a19ef7b112

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 1:56am
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 2:00am
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 2:01am

Seems Jacinta wants as many vaccinated as possible......

Best get the shot.....

Lmao

Take care all 😷😉💉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 87935
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 3:21am

Covid does not kill many of those it infects - true.  But it also maims, can cause months of severe illness and kills horriffically.

Two million are dead from this disease already, and it is becoming endemic.

The only reason the numbers are as low as 2 million, is the herculean efforts undertaken worldwide to control it.

It has wrecked ecomnomies.

It has overloaded ICUs and hospitals and many have died from other things because of it.

Millions suffer as additional medical services are overtaken.

AND IT IS MUTATING EVERY DAY!!!



New deadlier Covid variant could kill one in three people - SAGE warns

A NEW Covid variant caused by a ‘recombination' of the delta and alpha variants is a "realistic possibility" according to a new report by the government's scientific advisers.

 By Lauren Russell

 

NEW Covid variant caused by a ‘recombination' of the delta and alpha variants is a "realistic possibility" according to a new report by the government's scientific advisers.

Scientists also stated that the complete eradication of the virus is “unlikely” and they have “high confidence that there will always be variants.”

Whilst unsure of the short-term effects of Covid, there is a “realistic possibility in the long term” that Covid will cause common cold symptoms, affecting predominantly the old or clinically vulnerable.

Clinical epidemiologist Dr Deepti Gurdasani took to Twitter to say that the SAGE paper was a "stark warning".

She continued: “Given the impact Delta has already had, and in light of recent evidence from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, we cannot afford any more new variants emerging, we need to take preventive action now.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

MERS, short for Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, was first reported in Saudi Arabia in 2012.

Those who contracted the virus developed severe respiratory illness with symptoms of fever, shortness of breath and cough.

The largest known outbreak of MERS was in 2015 when a traveler was returning home to the Republic of Korea from the Arabain Peninsula.

According to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, about three or four out of every ten patients reported to have had MERS have died.


Source:   Express


Ps.   Incidentally, how many deaths is enough to worry about?

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
Usk View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 5940
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 4:06am

Techno stop and THINK!!  You are keeping the Great Lie going!!!  

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 5:14am

It's absurd and inane to suggest that countries would lockdown because its a

"BIG LIE"

what would be the reason ? 

I mean WHAT would be the reason ???

Spending millions in of $$$$in free vaccinations,

Billions in lost exports....

Subjecting millions to lockdowns,

Millions out of work .......

.


I've been on this site for near 20years waiting and expecting a pandemic ,the thing I never ever expected was this nonsense , conspiracy theories ,that have absolutely no basis. 

It's just some cannot grasp what is going on ,there small minds cannot except it ,so they come up with all this stupidity.......

CANT FIX STUPID......

TAKE CARE ALL 😷😉💉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 87935
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 5:20am

2 million dead!   Many more on the virus' hit list!  The vast majority of scientists and medical people are in agreement on this.

Conspiracy nuts remain in disagreement, as do some politicians - hoping to gain in the strength of their countries' economies by playing this down. (Proven impossible, but still they hope.)



Yes, it is true that the disease is mild for most people, but not all, and not necessarily for long (It's a coronavirus: it mutates often.).

I have thought about this - long and hard.  I have freinds who are at severe risk from COVID. ... I have lost people dear to me and mine too. Stopping thinking about it would be far, far easier.

Have you read ME63's posts about his personal experience?   People don't just die from COVID, they die slowly and horriffically!  



OK, it is unlikely to become a slate wiper.  But, At no point is this OK, unless you think those deaths and all that vast suffering don't matter. Well, do you or not?

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
ViQueen24 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: May 14 2013
Location: Verona, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 11590
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 5:35am

People, people.

Edwin, great illustration.  Compared to earlier ones, even adjusted for population, this a pretty significant pandemic by any measure.

Carbon, Techno: Why beat a dead horse?  It tires out your arm and the horse likes it. (A former boyfriend used to say that, maybe why he is former).

THE BIG LIE is the hogwash that the 2020 US election was fixed.  The Great Lie --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Lie


I'm going to pop some popcorn.  See yinz all later!

Edited to add -- Edwin, as of today, 4.34 million people have died of Covid, with 206 million cases so far, so definitely folks looking at that graphic will want to know how much bigger the "powder-puff" has gotten.

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
Back to Top
ME163 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: September 16 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 8:00am

Ok, to tell you one more time and if you are too stupid to understand it then i am sorry.   I was in the hospital and nursing home for a combined 8 months.   I saw horrific deaths from COVID.  Out of the 48 people in the ICU, 36 died.  I was and still in a mental fog about some of details of my illness, but  I can tell you that the scenes of dead and dying people was heartbreaking.  I saw a mother say good bye to her 4 kids.  It was a PTSD causing incident.  I was witness to death on a massive scale.  36 people died in that ward.  I was so lucky, my doctors fought hard.  We cried every day when someone was sent to the morgue.  We saw things so horrid that i still can't put them in words.   This is real, it kills and anyone who discounts the illness is plain nuts.  Unless, you have been where I have been, you have no right to deny this illness. 

Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 22980
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 3:10pm

When I saw that Cobber had posted this thread last night, I was delighted because i thought that it would be a real discussion point, so I commented and then went to bed. Getting up this morning I saw that there were 17 comments, and again, I was delighted because I thought that there would be an interesting discussion in progress. How wrong I was!!

This site used to host some amazing discussions. People were able to express their opinions or debate a theory and no one was attacked or belittled for speaking out. 

I can see that Covid is a very emotive subject. Having read all the posts above I'll say this

ME163, there is no doubt that what you and your family went through with Covid was truly horrific and i'm not surprised to hear that it was a PTSD causing event for you all. It sounds like hell on earth, but you've said that if people deny Covid then they are stupid. But I can't see anyone denying Covid's existence. We all know it's there. 

You had the worst of outcomes from it, short of death, but all I'm saying is that for the majority of people, their experience is not the same. The facts remain that the majority of people are fine. 

Carbon, you are so firmly entrenched in your belief system that the only way forward is total vaccination that you seem unable to comprehend anyone's viewpoint that doesn't fully align with yours. And in the process you are only just stopping short of a personal attack. Throwing facts and figures at us all to illustrate your point is a bit pointless because for every one that you throw, there exists an equal and opposite "fact" from some other government or scientist group to contradict it. 

To give you an example, you have posted above a story about Indonesia and the narrative implies that due to their poor health system and low vaccination levels, that they may prove to be the origin of the variant that kills us all. Now about 5 days ago the UK government, backed by it's scientists, said the opposite. In fact they acknowleged that it would be in the fully vaccinated person that the most dangerous variants develop as the virus strives to become vaccine resistant. 

Your opinion is your own and you have every right to express it, but so do I. There is an increasing trend on this site to make out that anyone who even dares to question the standard narrative that the vaccines are amazing is some kind of Covid denier or anti vaxxer. And in doing so, it's not only insulting the person who made the comment but it's bordering on bullying. 

I question the vaccines because I'm intelligent enough to read both sides of the story. I'm not a bloody sheep just following the herd. I'm not an anti vaxxer. Me and my family are fully vaccinated and happy to be so. I question them because it doesn't matter how many millions of people receive a jab, we still don't know what the long term effects of those vaccinations are. We simply do not know if they are safe long term.

And that's a fact. 

Anyone who says otherwise is talking out of their arse because the plain fact is, no one knows. No one at all. Shout me down as much as you like about that but it's a fact. No one will know what the effects of these vaccinations in the long term until years in the future. This is a fact that can't be denied or manipulated because time is a constant. All sorts of scientists may well have an opinion, and THINK that there'll be no long term risks but they don't know. 

Now, if I were old or frail or immune compromised or obese or diabetic then I'd probably be fighting my way to the front of the queue to get one. Because the risks of catching covid would far outweigh the risks of the long term effects of the jab. My 90 year old father has had his jabs, and I think that was a great call for him. 

But, when someone is young, healthy with no comorbidiites then I think they might be better off not having it. It's been publicly declared by the manufacturers and almost every government now that the jabs do not stop you for catching covid, they do not stop you from transmitting it either, so it can be successfully argued that having the jab is for personal benefit only. 

Please don't bother to post stories in reply to this showing how one young person died from Covid despite being healthy etc, I fully accept that there will be the odd one, and I've seen those stories myself.  But I repeat that the majority get a mild illness. Scare tactics don't really work with me. 

The point I'm trying to make here is that we each view the world from our own perspective, and we get to chose the lens through which we view it. I choose to view it from a questioning standpoint. I live on a farm with a young family and I clock up about 18,000 steps a day just going about my business. I'm fit and healthy and I am well aware that yes, perhaps I will be the unfortunate individual who ends up in ICU but it's unlikely. 

Why can't we accept that we are all different and are entitled to have a different opinion. We need to tone down the name calling and vitriol and maybe the intelligent discussion will return - perhaps along with some of the older members who used to be active on here. 

If this site continues to shout down anyone who dares to question it will just become a mutual appreciation society and will be boring in the extreme. I really hope it doesn't go that way.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 22980
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 3:15pm

And for good measure, I'm going to repeat myself in the vain hope that this gets through to anyone who is currently seeing red.........

Questioning the safety of Covid vaccines and the common narrative does not make someone a conspiracy theorist or an anti vaxxer. It doesn't make them anti Covid or a Covid denier. It just means they are thinking for themselves and are not a sheep.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
Back to Top
Usk View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 5940
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 7:51pm

You tell it like it is sister!!  We all need to take a breath and think about the sources of any news. I am just saying don’t take everything you read or see from the media as truth. Alot is geared to improve ratings to improve the bottom line. I take great objection to any attempt to figure out this virus death rate!! No one HERe or anywhere have the true death tallies especially from countries under communist rule or dictatorshipsEvencountriewithdemocratiruleandbestinterestarenotsureoftheirnumbers
 Some here early on told me the best intell is boots on the ground. There was an interesting PBS special last night thar investigated these tales of woe in the media and quickly found them all to be over exaggerated claims. One was the mis quote of number of hospitizied children in Florida which turned out to be the number since 2020 when it started not just this week!   It is important now more then ever to be hyper vigilant and verify facts before engaging in the hype and rumor mill

Back to Top
Usk View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 5940
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 8:04pm

Pixie on another post site posted this website tracking hospitals. I can attest to Reston Hospital in Reston Va numbers since I work there https://data.statesmanjournal.com/covid-19-hospital-capacity/facility/reston-hospital-center/490107/

They are accurate

Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 58482
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 10:11pm

Reality is always complex. We may get some realism if we look at things from different corners...there is no absolute reality..

For the news I more and more turn to twitter etc. since main stream media/experts/government all come with a same sort of "unrealism"...vaccine-religion is part of that "unrealism"...

The need to make such a point of vaccines is that then other questions can be stopped. Why is there airtravel even cruises ? "Vaccines will save us"...Why schools reopen ? "Vaccines will save us"...pretty insane !

Most independent scientists by now seem to think Delta needs both vaccines AND NPI...

KiwiMum-I may not agree with you on some points-but the idea of this forum is NOT to agree on some points...!

Non of us are experts ! We all (should) try to "get a realistic picture"...and if that picture is not the same picture that is welcome, interesting, fine !

I live in urban NW Europe, you live on a New Zealand farm...different perspectives, different views !

Respect is the basis of this forum !

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 22980
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 13 2021 at 10:29pm

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

Respect is the basis of this forum !

You're spot on Josh.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
Back to Top
ViQueen24 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: May 14 2013
Location: Verona, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 11590
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 9:12am

Ever since a dear friend of mine received a message on Facebook spring of 2020 saying contact tracers were taking children from the homes of parents who were both testing Covid positive (they weren't, they don't have that power); and last summer that BLM was demanding people's houses be given to them for reparations and  burning them down if they refused (during last year's Western US fires), I haven't believed a damn thing I see on social media unless I have three other credible sources (AP, Reuters, etc.) backing it up.  (The BLM story was a variation of the "Antifa started the fires" BS that also circulated on social media.  Cuz you know, we don't have fires every year due to drought, record heat, I.e. climate change /s).

Believing that the pandemic is at least as bad as is being reported, that therefore one is better off being cautious, and protecting oneself by every reasonable means necessary; that this vaccine is the result of at least 11 years of technology, and is proven safe so far, and is probably much safer than some of the food, water, air and supplements that many of us take in; and that, while others may not believe in the vaccine, and that is their prerogative, but when they are out amongst the rest of us who have taken these steps, they need to social distance and mask up, or stay the @#$% home, else they are being selfish and irresponsible ≠ being a

It = being socially responsible, a concept seemingly being forgotten by some of the "rights and freedoms" crowd.  I also didn't listen to the CDC when they said that, once fully vaxxed you were safe to hang out maskless with other fully vaxxed people.  Because experience says no vax is 100% effective, and other people will lie and tell you they're vaxxed when they're not.  This is just common sense, also not the hallmark of 

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
Back to Top
ME163 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: September 16 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 9:26am

My doctor told me to get ready for another shot. Both of us are on the list for booster shots.  We will be called when they get here.  We will inform you all about the side effects and what kind we are getting.  


JIll, Becky, ME 163 and Vicki .


Back to Top
ME163 View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group


Joined: September 16 2006
Status: Offline
Points: 3737
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ME163 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 10:08am

Respect also means posting true sources of information and not misleading people with fake news and disinformation.   Respect means that people do not try to bully people into following a fake media story.  Respect means that people don't demand respect when they spread fake and deceptive info.   Believe it or not, there are lurkers and others who follow this site and actually follow the advice on this site.  People actually use this site for info.  They can't trust their own health officials or can't afford to go to a hospital or the medication.  We need to have standards.  Right now, there are people who are dying from COVID because they believed the fake news or lies that have been spread around the internet.  I can't in good faith allow myself to be associated with a site that spews fake news and fake, misleading items on a Killer Virus.  I just heard that another classmate of mine died from COVID.  We don't need to be jerks or morons, here.  We do need to have standards.  We need to honor Albert's vision for this group, to help people find a way thru a pandemic.  We need to find a way to keep fake info out of this group.  So, here is what I propose. You can keep a viewpoint and perspective.  You can even have respect as long as you don't demand respect. There is an old saying. Respect is not given, it is earned.  Here is what I propose, Ask Chuck or DJ before you post a site or a LINK or so.  Have them look it up, first before you post.  If  you are willing to do this then, it shows good faith and willingness to insure that information is correct and that the site can be trusted.   There are plenty of lurkers here who don't reply or comment.  They may be from a society or nation that  doesn't have the information from a proper source.     I know that this may get me kicked out of this group.  It is a moral imperative that truthful information is presented by the group.  If this is my last post, I thank everyone who have been supportive of us.  

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 12:35pm

😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
ViQueen24 View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group
Avatar

Joined: May 14 2013
Location: Verona, PA
Status: Offline
Points: 11590
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 2:35pm

Agree, ME, respect must be earned.  Some people earn that respect, some do not.  And then there are the cases where you start out respecting someone, and then "familiarity breeds contempt".  I have seen some folks on here that I used to respect seeming to agree with some socially irresponsible actions, that have taken my breath away and caused me to rethink my opinions of them.

I share your concern for the lurkers, ME, that is why I and I'm sure a few others respond to some items, especially some of the more outlandish items that we see on here.

I don't think anyone's bouncing you out of here, ME.  I think if they tried a few of us would follow you out.  

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 87935
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 6:00pm

You earned a lot more of my respect, ME, than most of the anti-vax posters, covid deniers and whole panoply of people for whom point-scoring outweighs the risking of peoples lives.

I have long shared your view that we provide a valuable service.  I actually joined the site originally so I could give something back.  So, I try to prune the misinformation tree where I can.  But it is a tenacious bu&&er, as difficult to remove as ground elder and more dangerous than poison ivy.  I wish I could do more, but another tenet of this site is one of free speech.  That is why, even before asking, I know Albert would not accept that "vetting" of posts.  

I realy wish I understood where this all sprang from.  I can't fully believe the rubbish being spouted and don't grasp why it is being swallowed by inteligent, rational people.  Believe me, I'm as frustrated as you are!  And as dissappointed as ViQueen in some of the people for whom I had such high regard. 

 ... ' And yes, I would bounce out after you too.  The only point of doing this moderating job (time-consuming, lonely and thankless) is to help people.  I can't remain a party to something I am certain will cost lives.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 22980
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 6:03pm

I think the respect Dutch Josh was talking about was not the kind earned but the respect of another person's point of view and more importantly, their right to hold a point of view that is different from yours.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
Back to Top
Technophobe View Drop Down
Assistant Admin
Assistant Admin
Avatar

Joined: January 16 2014
Location: Scotland
Status: Offline
Points: 87935
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 6:07pm

A person is fully entitled to their views.  A person is entitled to express their views.  EXCEPT where those views risk harm to anothe.

A final note from me.  Bye!

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 22980
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 6:22pm

Originally posted by ME163 ME163 wrote:

Respect also means posting true sources of information and not misleading people with fake news and disinformation.   Respect means that people do not try to bully people into following a fake media story.  Respect means that people don't demand respect when they spread fake and deceptive info.   Believe it or not, there are lurkers and others who follow this site and actually follow the advice on this site.  People actually use this site for info.  They can't trust their own health officials or can't afford to go to a hospital or the medication.  We need to have standards.  Right now, there are people who are dying from COVID because they believed the fake news or lies that have been spread around the internet.  I can't in good faith allow myself to be associated with a site that spews fake news and fake, misleading items on a Killer Virus.  I just heard that another classmate of mine died from COVID.  We don't need to be jerks or morons, here.  We do need to have standards.  We need to honor Albert's vision for this group, to help people find a way thru a pandemic.  We need to find a way to keep fake info out of this group.  So, here is what I propose. You can keep a viewpoint and perspective.  You can even have respect as long as you don't demand respect. There is an old saying. Respect is not given, it is earned.  Here is what I propose, Ask Chuck or DJ before you post a site or a LINK or so.  Have them look it up, first before you post.  If  you are willing to do this then, it shows good faith and willingness to insure that information is correct and that the site can be trusted.   There are plenty of lurkers here who don't reply or comment.  They may be from a society or nation that  doesn't have the information from a proper source.     I know that this may get me kicked out of this group.  It is a moral imperative that truthful information is presented by the group.  If this is my last post, I thank everyone who have been supportive of us.  


I'm not sure if this response is aimed at me, but I'll give it a go just in case.

Firstly, what fake news???? I can't see any. All that seems to be happening is that some people, like me, are saying that the vaccines are probably a good fit for people with health concerns but since I don't have any, I don't feel that it's right for me. But feel free to point out any fake news you think I'm toting, but btw, if someone doesn't agree with you, it doesn't make it fake news.

Secondly, I simply made the very valid point that time is a constant and in 10 years time we'll know exactly how safe the vaccines are. My children will be in their early 20's then, and then they might decide to have them, but of course, a better vaccine will probably have come along in the mean time, as the virus mutates. 

Thirdly, as for running my ideas or links past DJ or Chuck prior to posting, why? For all their skills, I don't think either of them has a crystal ball or a time machine - but do correct me if I'm wrong on that - and so all they can offer is their opinion. Chuck is obviously a doctor and an expert advisor to the powers that be, but even he will admit he can't guarantee the long term safety of these vaccines. He can say that according to the latest research etc etc, or in certainly looks like, or they most likely will be, but neither he, nor any other person on earth right now can say with certainty that they are fine. As for fact checking, again, why? There are so many reports coming out that they are tripping over themselves and a "fact" can be cancelled by a new report the very next day.

This doesn't make me an anti vaxxer. My 90 year old father is unlikely to be around in 10 years so the vaccine was a no brainer for him. But for a 10 year child with their whole lives before them???? Really??? Based on a supposition or a whim or an opinion or a probability????? Not for my kids thanks very much, but by all means go for your life with your own. I'm not trying to talk anyone out of it, I'm just expressing my opinion.

And fyi, I wasn't asking for your respect. But I can tell you from years of experience on this site, that the second people start not to respect another person's right to an opinion, then lots of people get upset and everyone starts throwing their toys out of the pram - as I think we're starting to see happening now.

And finally, no one's kicking you out of the group. Calm down. Thankfully there is freedom of speech on here. I was just hoping that people could be even slightly open minded but perhaps that was too much to hope for with such an emotive subject as this one. The great thing about this site is that Albert does welcome freedom of speech.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
Back to Top
KiwiMum View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: May 29 2013
Status: Offline
Points: 22980
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 9:08pm

Well since everyone's blood lust is up, why don't we arrange a public flogging this weekend for a bit of light relief............  

There's nothing like a perceived grievance to focus and unite a group of people is there?

It may interest you to know that the largest group of people with vaccine hesitancy is found amongst those who hold Phds.

Enjoy your witch hunt. It's going so well.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
Back to Top
Dutch Josh View Drop Down
Adviser Group
Adviser Group


Joined: May 01 2013
Location: Arnhem-Netherla
Status: Offline
Points: 58482
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 14 2021 at 9:37pm

DJ, Good morning all ! Just having my breakfast-some coffee !

A few points; 

-This forum has been doing a very good job in "offering room" for people to share their thoughts and opinions. This is NOT a medical/science forum ! 

-Cobber is defending the idea that "Covid" is not worse then the flu. I would love to be able to see it that way...My idea that we may be close to 10X the "official"  number of people that died in this pandemic so far goes to the other "extreme"...

-Kiwimum is putting some questions at the vaccines-questions I also have. Long term safety etc. 

-I think most vaccines are great-a miracle ! Over 90% protection against severe disease is-as far as I know-much better then the 60% protection flu vaccines offer !

-However vaccination strategy has been a total disaster-in my opinion (and just my opinion-I am NOT an expert except in sharing my breakfast with an internet forum ! Some coffee...)...For two reasons mainly;

 1-Leaky vaccines, vaccination going very slow...so the (RNA-single string-much less stabil=lots of mutations )virus gets all the room formutating-variants...This global vaccination may be the best for now-but it is simply not going to get us out of this pandemic !

 2-With slow, not perfect vaccinations/vaccines we did reopen way to much ! (One step forward then two steps back !). Global air travel is almost-in some area's at pre-pandemic level ! A lot of countries did stop NPI/masks etc (if not by rule then by (in)action)...

I can understand some people do want to wait a little longer before getting vaccinated. I am NOT going to attack them for their choices...

However...they are not on this forum, have their own sponsored subculture, there are also "small cults" spreading/creating all kind of crazy garbage...

I am here on this forum to make my mind up...get info/spread info (with links the best I can). I do not allways read all of what people write here on this forum...Time is an issue...I try to limit my non-sense the best I can...

A pandemic is ALLWAYS a complex long term development. 

ME163-You have seen horror, experienced horrors...You are trying to do a good job-but so is KiwiMum ! Techno is kicking all the persons out that try to make a mess (selling pasports etc...)...Even experts are not on the same line in this pandemic....

Respect to you all...even to Cobber with who I most disagree. But he is willing to accept that others have another view !

Also respect to those that follow this site (I hope among many other sources !)...you all understand this is an OPINION-site ! Nothing else !

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
Back to Top
Usk View Drop Down
V.I.P. Member
V.I.P. Member
Avatar

Joined: January 26 2020
Location: Virginia
Status: Offline
Points: 5940
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2021 at 7:15am

So Cobber did you ever think that your starting post would cause such a flurry of debate?  Good job giving this forum life again in my opinion 

Back to Top
carbon20 View Drop Down
Moderator
Moderator
Avatar

Joined: April 08 2006
Location: West Australia
Status: Offline
Points: 62356
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 15 2021 at 2:59pm

To be honest,I only read the 1st couple of lines of cobbers post,


Before I went off into my rant.....

Sick of him calling Covid a powder puff.....

A few weeks ago he was asking all sorts of questions,which for someone calling it a Powerpuff seemed odd....techno, explained it all to him ....... again!!!!!

Cobbers probably lockdown in Adalaide ,

With Sydney,and the whole of NSW ,and Half of Australia in one form of lockdown at the moment,

Thinking governments are hysterical is Inane, and totally without foundation and ignorant,

if anything the government's are not telling us the truth at how bad it really is....

As I said,

Please explain the logic to this assumption.......(why the lockdowns loss of millions $$$ ???)

If you are unable to.....

Then accept that it is a  serious situation,and could get worse ,with new variants on the horizon.....

Take care all 😷😉💉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down