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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

Yep. I've had it up to my eye teeth.

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WitchMisspelled View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Yep. I've had it up to my eye teeth.
    Posted: September 25 2021 at 9:32am

First, I'd like to tell KiwiMum I'm not targeting her. I regret it if you think I am. I'd like to go on record I've been sitting on my fingers for weeks now because of the propagandist rhetoric being represented as science from both sides of the fence.  There's other things I'm fed up with and I may yet call a few people out for being armchair commentators on things they clearly know nothing about and are filling in their opinion with their "feelings". But I'll try to keep in mind that like butts, everyone has an opinion.  And they are "entitled" to it.

I'd also like to go on record as saying that if you don't want the vaccine, then don't get one.  But like having an opinion, your rights do not absolve you from observing the rules of your municipality.  It also doesn't give you the right to spread your virus impeding my rights. So wear a mask.  

Part of this rant is because I received a PM that a valued member has left because she's so done with the same BS I've been sitting on my fingers over for weeks now.  I'm not leaving because I think this forum is worth fighting for.  Even if it means telling people off in the nicest possible way that they're perception of "rights" is damaging to all those around them. Then there's the propaganda I'm seeing that appear to be "throw-away" comments but are lifted directly from anti-vax troll farm rhetoric.  Which is WHY we're in this mess to begin with. Congratulations, you've fed into conspiracy theory rather than science.

The most constructive comment I've seen recently was from KiwiMum. She said she "wondered". Yes. We all need to wonder. We all need to satisfy those questions with the current science. We need to get our scientists to ask different questions.  We need our media to report and question why. For example we don't know if any of the young adults that are being hospitalized for covid complications have been vaccinated. 

There's a reason my nickname is WitchMisspelled. Over and out for now.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2021 at 1:23pm

Good post Witchy, and I haven't taken offense at all. 

I saw an excellent interview about 2 weeks ago with a politician in the UK. He was saying that at the onset of Covid, when nobody really knew much about it, out of fear that it could prove to be a slate wiper, the government over egged the miracle effects of the vaccine and exaggerated it's powers as a be it and end all, at the same time they also exaggerated the claims that disaster would befall all who didn't have it etc etc. He said this strong message came from a good place, it's what they both hoped and believed to be true at the time. 

But, he went on, now that it was clear that the efficacy of the vaccines waned over time, and the shocking realisation that even when vaccinated you can still catch and pass on Covid, the government found themselves in a tough spot. They had put so much emphasis on you must have the vaccine and then we'll all be saved that he said there was nowhere for them to go now with getting people to treat the vaccines as just one measure amongst many that can be used to fight Covid. He said that with hindsight they should have been less black and white and now perhaps they would see people still wearing masks, still distancing, still taking care to protect themselves and others. 

This is where it's all gone wrong. The world is divided. I'm both for the vaccine and against it. I'm for it for my elderly relatives and 2 cousins of mine who are massively immuno-comprimised, but I'm against it for my young children. I'm for wearing masks in an enclosed area, and I'm glad my son (and the rest of his classmates) choose to wear their masks - which is optional - at uni in their lecture halls so that the lecturer can go without a mask and give a better lecture. But I'm against wearing masks out in the open air when there's no one around and I get annoyed when I see people virture signalling by doing so because I think it's spreading fear unnecessarily.

Above all, I do support the right of an individual to choose what does and doesn't go in their body and since the science is overwhelmingly proving that the vaccines don't stop you getting or passing on Covid to others, I still honestly don't understand why people are getting so upset about it. What does it matter to anyone if their neighbour has or hasn't had the jab? The only difference it makes it to the individual themselves.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2021 at 1:59pm

KiwiMum, Some do not have the luxury of choice.  They work with the public and are paid by public tax dollars.  If the municipality deems vaccination necessary then so be it.  The leaders are doing what's best for the majority, not the individual. I don't know what mandates you have in NZ, but here in the US, the mandate is get the vaccine or face testing weekly.  A fair compromise, I think.   I know that some hospitals are not offering weekly testing in lieu of vaccination, but these are not public hospitals and exercise corporate policy in their mandates. 


I'd also like to remind you that not ALL vaccinated folk get Covid.  But yes, there are breakthrough infections.  That's among the questions I want to see answered:  How many breakthrough infections are there among the vaccinated?  What's the percentage? I've seen speculation, but nothing concrete from say, John Hopkins or some other major University Medical Center.   I don't trust privately funded think tanks one bit and generally dismiss and ignore anything from them.  With the media looking to bolster their advertising dollars with drama, I want that question addressed to calm (or concern) the general public.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2021 at 2:57pm

Hi Witchy, have a look at this short youtube video by Dr John Campbell. He's a UK doctor, very pro vaccine and in this video he talks about the waning levels of immunity as the vaccine wears off. He also says that governments now realise that everyone will be exposed to Covid as it becomes endemic and he talks about when it's best to be exposed to it - before or after your third booster. He's very informative and does a daily video. I know Dutch Josh watches him too. He reports solely on the peer reviewed science and despite being very pro vaccine, he does report both the good and the bad. He's definitely worth watching. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUoWSfN3xo8

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2021 at 9:29pm

Talking about %, small group where I work. 12 people, prior to vaccine, 10 people catch covid, 1 died. Update: 12 people work, all have been fully vaccinated, 2 have caught covid in the past month (1 of those was asymptomatic and the other was pretty sick but not hospitalized). I still have not caught it and been tested many times. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2021 at 2:47am

Thanks for that, Penham.  I strongly suggest your little microcosm control group is fairly accurate in its showing how vaccine is, in fact, making people immune.  At the very least it's saving lives ... or should I say at the very most?  Some of the talk I've seen here is that EVERYONE gets it even if vaccinated but they're all asymptomatic.  We've (or some here) have forgotten about established science and are disregarding it and replacing it with troll farm rhetoric.  (okay I know.. soap box...)


KM, I already watch the doctor's postings on YouTube.  But, thanks, a good reminder it's a good resource.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2021 at 4:43am

Dr Campbell is not an MD. He has a doctorate in nursing 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2021 at 9:41am

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pdf/freeresources/general/strong-defense-against-flu.pdf


We know these facts on seasonal flu which is endemic,and they apply also to the covid vaccines. Dr Campbell’s comment on getting infected after vaccination to boost natural immunity seems to suggest only mild illness will be had. He supplied no data to show that is the case.you will have to peck thru state data for breakthroughs and deaths.


Never has it entered my mind after seasonal flu shot to expose myself to someone sick to increase my immunity,nor would I expose myself to  someone infected with covid.Last year the flu season was all but nonexistent due to masking and social distancing.That needs to continue,endemic or not there will still be transmission.


The following points apply to covid vaccines

• Flu viruses are constantly changing, so flu vaccines may be updated from one season to the next to protect against the viruses that research suggests will be common during the upcoming flu season.

• Your protection from a flu vaccine declines over time. Yearly vaccination is needed for the best protection.

While some people who get vaccinated still get sick, flu vaccination has been shown in several studies to reduce severity of illness.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2021 at 2:07pm

Originally posted by Usk Usk wrote:

Dr Campbell is not an MD. He has a doctorate in nursing 

https://johnplatinumgoss.com/2020/12/16/dr-john-campbell-a-danger-to-all/

Sent from my iPhone

Yes I know that. He has a lifetime of nursing practice and is a nurse practioner and also an established teacher of nursing. And he is entitled to addressed as doctor due to his Phd. He's a medical doctor in all but name. I have a sister in law in the same position and she sees patients and prescribes medicines just as the doctors do in her practice. The only difference between her and them is the salary they get paid!!

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2021 at 2:12pm

Originally posted by Pixie Pixie wrote:

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pdf/freeresources/general/strong-defense-against-flu.pdf


We know these facts on seasonal flu which is endemic,and they apply also to the covid vaccines. Dr Campbell’s comment on getting infected after vaccination to boost natural immunity seems to suggest only mild illness will be had. He supplied no data to show that is the case.you will have to peck thru state data for breakthroughs and deaths.


Never has it entered my mind after seasonal flu shot to expose myself to someone sick to increase my immunity,nor would I expose myself to  someone infected with covid.Last year the flu season was all but nonexistent due to masking and social distancing.That needs to continue,endemic or not there will still be transmission.


The following points apply to covid vaccines

• Flu viruses are constantly changing, so flu vaccines may be updated from one season to the next to protect against the viruses that research suggests will be common during the upcoming flu season.

• Your protection from a flu vaccine declines over time. Yearly vaccination is needed for the best protection.

While some people who get vaccinated still get sick, flu vaccination has been shown in several studies to reduce severity of illness.

I saw something on the news last night suggesting that this was going to be one hell of a flu season because everyone has had a year off from being exposed to colds and flus and so any natural immunity we had built up would have waned. They were expecting to see huge numbers of respiratory illnesses and really bad colds. Certainly here in NZ they've had record numbers of tiny children with Respiratory Syncytial Virus (RSV) Infection. 

As for exposing ourselves to flu on purpose, I think most cases catch us by surprise. My whole family had flu about 4 years ago, and we had full blown flu and had no idea who we caught it from. It's a nasty illness and took us about 3 weeks to get over it.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2021 at 3:51pm

Listened a few times to be sure and it seems Dr Campbell is “suggesting” when to become infected to boost immunity if they want. He doesn’t come across as if by “chance or eventually  you become infected like Dr Mina said in my post of  breakthrough infections “ Seems directive to me,but he covers himself with the statement of

following Government 

recommendations.Yes,most breakthroughs are mild but it still carries the risk of hospitalization or death for some and I doubt many would take this deliberate  approach. Only nine months into vaccinations I think time and data will show whether Dr Campbell or Dr Mina’s boosted immunity will play out as suggested.

recommendations.Yes,most breakthroughs ar mild but it still carries the risk of hospitalization or death for some and I doubt many would take this deliberate  approach. Only nine months into vaccinations I think time and data will show whether Dr Campbell or Dr Mina’s boosted immunity will play out as suggested.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (2) Thanks(2)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2021 at 5:33pm

I was a member here at least a decade ago. I would go years without checking in,, forgot a couple of passwords etc, but found my way back. Its been a great source of information over the years. There were disagreements and hurt feelings and boasting about credentials, but mostly it was a group of regular people trying to be prepared for what we all knew was another inevitable pandemic. I knew this one was coming very early because of the people here. I was known as "the pandemic lady" at my school. I never asked for that title, but I did feel a responsibility to the people around me. If you have info, you should share it.  When the vaccines arrived, I was so relieved and hopeful and full of admiration of the scientists who worked so hard to make it happen. I should have known better than to think things would get better. At the time, I had lost an uncle and 2 other family friends to the virus. After the vaccine, I started living life a bit like before- I assumed the people around me would choose to get vaccinated. I was stupid. Im surrounded by death now. Two very close friends in their 40s with no underlying conditions. Family members, parents of students, its everywhere. I thought coming here to help deal with this by communicating with other people who had a similar understanding of the situation would be helpful. It isn't. Its become just like everything else. I feel like i can't actually speak my mind, I cant be myself, I can't process the senseless deaths of my friends because it just goes back to another political argument. None of this will ever make sense. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HoneyBee08 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 03 2021 at 10:42pm

Maybe we need the equivalent of a DMZ -- de-militarized zone, you know, a de-politicized zone?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 4:43am

I dont know what would work. I only know that my friends listened to mountains of misinformation and now they are dead. They left behind small children and devastated families. I was a coward and didn't say much, and I will never know if it would have mattered. I will have to live with that for the rest of my life. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 11:44am

I'm sorry to hear about your friends. If we don't already, I'm sure we will all know someone who has died from Covid before this thing is over. The loss of anyone is devastating to their loved ones. My friends are reeling from the loss of their father/grandfather 3 weeks ago. He's left such a huge hole in their lives. He was fully vaccinated in the early part of this year and when he caught Covid in early September he was quite ill, then seemed to rally for a week and then went suddenly downhill hill and died. It's very sad.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 2:09pm

I never in all my life  imagined the mass hysteria about vaccines..... they've only been around for centuries so has the science behind them.....

All the sly/subliminal anti Vax messages that seem to keep getting out there...........

Disgusting.......


Take care all 😷😉💉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 04 2021 at 6:20pm

Thank you

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2021 at 3:16pm

AandEM. I understand.  I haven't gone into it but I've lost two family members to Covid.  Young ones.  Too young. Sadly, there's no way to circumvent the current anti-vax climate of this board.  I feel like their future was stolen, as well as mine.  There's no way to convince those idiots who haven't lost anyone close to themselves that getting the vaccine is necessary to prevent deaths.  No telling those feeing into the Russian Troll Farm rhetoric that those who are vaccinated but have breakthrough infections result in 97% fewer fatalities.  


I understand how you feel when you say you're surrounded by death.  I felt that way too in the first six months of this pandemic being in NYC.  We were hit very hard. Unless you see those refrigerator trucks in the parking lot of your hospital, there's no way to explain it to someone.  But the BS goes on.  People are leaving this forum because of exactly how you feel.  You say one thing, someone  posts BS behind it and minimizes and dismisses the science (and you) with conspiracy theory.  

But now maybe you understand why I didn't report the deaths in my family. Or the friends and neighbors who have died or are now suffering from Long Covid. 


Blessings to you dear one.  My heart aches along with yours.   I've PM'd with a number of people who have left because of the current climate here on this board.  I didn't know how bad it was until I came back to see for myself and was accused of bullying and threatening when I had my say. Evidently Albert doesn't give a flying fux anymore.  So why should you? Why should any of us?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2021 at 3:53pm

We have to keep fighting the good fight,

Post post post send the antivaxers a message that you will not be cowed into agreeing with something that is wrong.......

Anti science , conspiracy theories ,send them packing with Knowledge and science based facts ,not some mumbo jumbo that should have been , thrown out decades ago....

21 century that's a laugh,most want to live back in the dark ages.......

Without science we would all still be in the DARK......

I Sincerely hope the likes of Technophobe and ViQueen will reconsider their decisions.....

And not abandon the fight against this virus.......and conspiracy theories.....

Take care all 😷😉

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote ViQueen24 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2021 at 8:12pm

Hello, all.  While I am flattered to hear that my presence may be missed in some small way, I did want to clear up a misapprehension.

I did not decide to leave this site because of the Covid-downplaying, Anti-Covid-vaxxing, the fighting etc.  I left because of the lack of integrity of a mod.

In Gestalt 60, this person said that if she had Covid symptoms, she wouldn't be tested or in any way report her symptoms or possible Covid-positive status, so that government/contact tracers, etc. would not in any way get involved.  In such a way of course she could possibly infect other people, because obviously even if she laid low after she felt symptoms, there were still all the potential exposures before she was symptomatic.  I told her that here in the States, that is criminal behavior, and that it would be prosecuted as such -- example:  https://www.cbsnews.com/news/coronavirus-justice-department-anti-terrorism-laws/.  There was really very little pushback from anyone else.

In Mu, Highly Resistant Variant, the same person said that for once she was glad people in the US had guns because if Biden's vaccine mandates were enacted maybe they would take them out into their protests.  Apparently, I was the only one who thought her saying that was heinous and inappropriate in a mod (or anyone) because there was absolutely no pushback.  Here we are 9 months after the January 6 insurrection, where we watched an armed mob try to interfere in the democratic process, while we watched President Nero Trump fiddle (Tweet), as some in the crowd built a noose and called for the hanging of the Vice President, and the shooting of The Speaker Of The House.  And at least weekly, we are still treated to a nasty story of whatever new vile crap they find out somebody in that crowd did.  

I would have had no problem with this person saying, "Hey, hope the US rule of law comes into play and some enterprising barrister files a lawsuit, and Biden's mandate is found to be unConstitutional.". I wouldn't have agreed with her opinion, but I wouldn't have found it to be disgusting and heinous, and would have respected it.  That there was no pushback was also shocking and discouraging to me.  And that, as Witchy said, evidently our leader is fresh outta fux to give, because I wrote to him on this matter very respectfully and received no response, which I'm sure emboldens a certain person, which she herself admitted in a response to Witchy on a topic that Witchy alluded to above.

As for Techno, her reasons are more complicated than mine, but one thing I will say: we took that lady for granted.  We owed her better 😥.  

I am taking a stand against the anti-vax, Covid-denying/downplaying, etc., just not here.  It might help to understand that the societal ills that Carbon, Witchy and some of the rest of you have spoken of are part of a much larger disinformation virus that has infected this world.  As Facebook whistleblower Frances Haugen has illustrated, a very deliberate effort to deceive and exploit has taken place.  People who have swallowed the disinfo therefore did not arrive at their current opinion by logic; attempting to "logic" them out of it will not be successful.  This is why we all have posted the truth ad nauseum here and have been dismissed, disputed, gaslighted, etc. by the person in question.  But all of you who are continuing to do so for the sake of lurkers who may not have any other sources of good info are doing the right thing and I applaud you.

I don't rule out coming back to AFT, but these incidents I mention and the fact that Albert is apparently MIA/DGAF have left a bad taste in my mouth.

I am the DZ Queen, and I approve this message.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2021 at 11:54am

Witchy and ViQueen, don't you think this is getting out of hand?

ViQueen I will say straight out that my comments about Americans being armed was tongue in cheek. I absolutely do not support gun violence on any level. So I apologise if my comment was in bad taste, it really wasn't meant to be. 

As for everything else, although I keep saying it no one believes me but I'm not an anti vaxxer. My family are fully vaccinated for everything we are scheduled to be except for the Covid jabs. And the reason for this is that I don't think they are necessary for children or for fit and healthy adults. It's that simple and it's my choice. I honestly don't care if you or anyone else has the vaccine. If it's the right choice for you then that's great. 

My elderly father as had his jabs and I'm delighted for him. He has had pneumonia in the past and so has lung damage and at 90 years old, any long term negative effects really won't bother him. I never even for one moment questioned his decision because he's a grown man who can make decisions for himself and it's his body and his choice. Whatever he decided to do about it, I would support him 100%. And the same goes for you. If you feel safer for having a Covid jab then that's great, just extend me the same courtesy. 

As for comments about not reporting my illness, I think you miss understood what I was saying, Here in NZ at the time of my comment, the policy was that anyone testing positive would be removed from their home, along with all other household members,  and placed in a managed isolation facility. There was no alternative but then they were dealing with an outbreak in an overcrowded district of Auckland, where we used to live and it's very cheek by jowl. 

I live on a farm in the middle of nowhere and so I can isolated very easily at home and I would need to because we have plenty of farm animals that need constant care. As I said, I would be happy to have my gate locked and be left to isolate here. Now that Covid has spread outside of Auckland, they are allowing rural people to isolate at home, so this is no longer an issue. But at the time of my comment, which was also slightly tongue in cheek, but only slightly, there was no such option. But now, as I've said, the government has relaxed it's view point on this. And fyi, I'm an incredibly responsible person and if asked to isolate, I would absolutely do so, particularly because i have many elderly neighbours (which by the way here means they are hundreds of meters from my house because we all live on sizeable chunks of land so there's no way Covid could carry to them - I can't even see their houses from mine such is the distance, but I know they are there). 

I'm really sorry that my comments seem to be so upsetting to some of you. What I see are people who I suspect are older and more vulnerable than me, and for whom Covid is a frightening prospect, and so anything that even hints that the vaccines might be even 1% less than wonderful provokes a disproportionate response. My every word is being jumped on as people are looking for any excuse to try and put me in my place. To my shame, this activity has stopped me from posting what I believe is informative and important information, such as the CDC admitting this week that the deaths from Covid are now made up of 15% of fully vaccinated people. 

I'm not trying to frighten you but I simply believe - and it's backed up by scientists the world over - that we know more about Covid now and about the Covid jabs, and however distressing it is to people who have put their faith in them, their efficacy is waning. Isn't it better to be aware of this and to take other precautions than to blindly stride into situations feeling invincible but actually being vulnerable? 

Now before you accuse me again of gaslighting, this is not gaslighting. This is me trying yet again to explain my viewpoint. I'm not frightened of Covid. I'm wary of it but not frightened by it. I have many friends and relatives in the States and Europe who are about my and younger who have had Covid and it's been fine. It's been like a nasty cold or flu like illness but they're all fine, so my experience is different from yours. I have a niece who works on a Covid ward in hospital and she sees the very worse of it, but she's also not frightened of it and has had it and she's fine too. 

I'm choosing to view Covid from a different view point to you but that doesn't make me an anti vaxxer.

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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KiwiMum View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 07 2021 at 12:13pm

I suspect that the people on here who are so upset with my viewpoint are on here to be in a group of like minded individuals who will back up the decisions that they have made and will band with them so that they feel supported. I understand this, but this website has always been a discussion forum, not a mutual appreciation society. There used to be varied discussion on here, not just blind agreement. 

The cancel culture is rearing it's ugly head on here as demonstrated with the comments by witchy and Viqueen, which are indirectly suggesting I should be kicked off the site. ViQueen even wrote to Albert!!!!!!!!!!! That's so funny. Quick, run and get a teacher. 

Cancel culture is the intolerance of any view that doesn't align with your own. It's saying that if your opinion differs from mine, then yours is wrong. I suspect that there are many lurkers on this site that won't comment because the grey army will shout them down and accuse them of being an anti vaxxer or spreading disinformation if they even question the narrative on here. 

You keep banging on about this being a site for good information and yet you are only prepared to see it from your own viewpoint. New information about the situation is constantly emerging and yet you oldies are totally deaf to it. You only want to hear it if it supports the decisions you have already made.

What happened to an open mind? Or discussion?

"Once you've decided that something's absolutely true, you've closed your mind on it, and a closed mind doesn't go anywhere. Question everything. That's what education's all about." ~ David Eddings
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HoneyBee08 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote HoneyBee08 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2021 at 10:53am

So much to unpack here, but I'll give it a whirl.

So, KiwiMum, you say you're not an anti-vaxxer because you and yours got all their other required vaccinations.  I would buy that except for some things you have said and done, like posting the easily-disproved "Pilots Should Not Be Covid-Jabbed," etc.  As Witchy said above, in the end, have a shot or not, up to you, but if you don't get a shot, be prepared to accept the responsibility of your decision and face whatever consequences come from it.

So, if you developed symptoms of Covid, you could very well self-isolate on your farm, and assuming that you were responsible and didn't go out in the middle of it and lick groceries https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/09/us/woman-licked-grocery-store-items-trnd/index.html, all would probably be fine.  But how to protect the people you might have exposed in the 3-14 days before you became symptomatic?  Your country decided to put in place its law where you and your household would be moved to the managed isolation facility because governments are not paid to assume and probably.  And it is easier and more efficient to have their contact tracers working in one centralized location rather than having to travel remotely using up resources.  But you decided that the laws wouldn't apply to you and that you were not required to accept responsibility for your decision not to accept the Covid vaccination.  I find thwt offensive myself.

Nobody here feels that the vaccine is the end all, be all.  Many members, (including ViQueen, "ad nauseam") have affirmed that the vaccines were but part of a total package strategy with distancing, PPE, only going out when necessary, etc.  That you repeatedly assert differently may be one reason why you are being accused of gaslighting, I don't know.  I agree with you that I don't see you doing that.  I see you obfuscating by deliberately misstating other's veiwpoints, as above, and then arguing a false narrative.  I see you totally ignoring others points when you know you do not have a valid argument.  I see you playing victim a lot.  I see someone who has been in a pretty cushy situation talking pretty big.  I see someone who doesn't know what she doesn't know.  But you may be about to find out.

As for your comment about Americans taking their guns to protests, c'mon KiwiMum, there are things that you just don't say, even tongue-in-cheek.  That was not just poor taste, it was poor judgement.  That I agree with ViQueen does not befit a moderator.

And having said that, again "poor KiwiMum, cancel-culture, indirectly suggesting you should be kicked off the site, ViQueen wrote to Albert, ha ha, run and get a teacher..."

KiwiMum.  Don't flatter yourself.  "Cancel culture refers to the popular practice of withdrawing support for (canceling) public figures and companies after they have done or said something considered objectionable or offensive.  Cancel culture is generally discussed as being performed on social media in the form of group shaming."  (Dictionary.com, et. al.) Are you R. Kelly?  The Dixie Chicks?  Ellen Degeneres?  No, you're not.  What you are experiencing is not even"call-out culture," because call-outs are limited to this site alone, not extended to a larger spectrum, such as social media.  I have a very resilient friend who camps out in left-field ideologically.  She prides herself on being the "grit that creates the pearl."  Perhaps you could emulate her way of viewing in this situation.

I did not see anyone trying to have you thrown off this site.  I saw ViQueen raising the question if you should be a mod on this site.  Well, are you behaving as befits a mod?  Your above quote, and making snidely comments such as referring to them as "the grey army" and insisting rather paranoidly that they are all against you, and "the oldies" who are shouting people down.  If you were behaving as befits your title, if you were a true mod, wouldn't you be trying to find ways to end this bickering, instead of extending it?  Wouldn't you take it upon yourself to ignore what you perceive as slights, turn down the temperature on this site, and steer it to a better direction?  Have you done that?  Hmmm, maybe ViQueen had a point.  And maybe all she did was ask Albert to bring some order to this chaos since no one else is.  I don't know.  And neither do you.

Last but not least I will say this: a large part of what you perceive as people ganging up on you is some just being concerned that in the protected place you have been in this pandemic thus far, you just aren't getting it.  You look at people on this site, and you see scared, vulnerable older people.  When I look at you, I see a chick who just docent get it.  Fine, risk your own life.  But you have children you are making decisions for.  And because most everyone who you know who got Covid came through it all right, you assume you and yours will too.  And maybe so.  But in the intentional community where I live, at the beginning og the pandemic, we had six children, between the ages of 6-16.  We now have four.  Two of the kids have died.  And one was my apprentice, a precious 14 year old who hung on every word of our leader Katherine, who is an environmentalist, and worked hard to learn who to grow crops organically.  She was just starting to venture into learning some niche crops that I grow, and some that we both aspired to grow.  The date between she got sick and when she died?  16 days.  Her mother, vaccinated and a single mom, is leaving The Community and going back to Canada.  This girl was previously healthy, no known underlying conditions, lived a very healthy outdoors lifestyle.  It can happen to anybody.  Did it ever occur to you that some people you perceive as adversaries are genuinely concerned -- about you, your children, the lurkers?

Why don't you be the change you want to see on this site?

P.s. The "15% of Covid deaths are in the vaccinated" that you cite is not from last week. It came out two months ago on fringe sites, not Reuters, AP, CBC, BBC, or ABC.  Although I saw a similar story on ABC that 11% vaccinated are dying.  And?  89% dying are unvaccinated.  What's your point?

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The Pearl Fisher View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote The Pearl Fisher Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2021 at 1:06pm

Geez there are some nasty people on this site. So KiwiMom doesn't share your opinions, so what? Who made you guys king of the world? Grow up, untwist your panties and stop being so childish.

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